Oscars.... "Sorority racist"

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

While institutional racism is sometimes inextricably linked with classism, it's rather unfair to intimate that black/Latino automatically means "unable to get recs," because it's just as likely that a working-class white student would face the same difficulties. The institution is just as classist as it is racist.

I don't think that's true, but even if it is, it doesn't somehow erase the institutional racism.

[Sciencewoman]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

While being a legacy, in some sense, can only help you if all parties are playing by the book, flaunting your legacy status is such a grave faux pas that you could be blackballed.

And again, for those orgs where a recommendation is necessary, it's more likely that a black student from an underresourced school system had one teacher at some point who was a member of their org of interest. Remember that there are far less NPHC orgs than the others.

It's the "knowing the unwritten rules that members know" that I find compelling -- for NPC and NPHC -- it does seem to give an advantage to those with connections or enhanced prior knowledge. I have seen the mentoring teacher/administrator in action amongst two faculty members I know who are members of a particular NPHC sorority -- they are definitely involved in the recruitment process.

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I don't think that's true, but even if it is, it doesn't somehow erase the institutional racism.

The cost of membership is prohibitive to many women, and we really aren't doing anything about that. You have to be able to pay. I have seen this issue come up frequently, but not overt racism (not to say it doesn't happen, just that I haven't witnessed it personally as an issue with active members).

[Sen's Revenge]

Originally Posted by Sciencewoman

It's the "knowing the unwritten rules that members know" that I find compelling -- for NPC and NPHC -- it does seem to give an advantage to those with connections or enhanced prior knowledge. I have seen the mentoring teacher/administrator in action amongst two faculty members I know who are members of a particular NPHC sorority -- they are definitely involved in the recruitment process.

I understand what you're saying, but for clarification, are you trying to compare it to structural racism or nah?

[Sciencewoman]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

I understand what you're saying, but for clarification, are you trying to compare it to structural racism or nah?

I'm veering off on a tangent that has long weighed on my mind, which is that racist and classist structures incorporate processes that are designed to maintain the status quo, and the rec process seems to be one of those processes. It creates an obstacle...one that is easy to overcome if you readily know alumnae members, and one that is difficult (and that you may be unaware of) if you don't.

I'm really curious about how and why the process started...was it just a means to sincerely and formally recommend members and maybe keep that process fair and streamlined, or was there a more insidious purpose behind the process, like keeping out those who "don't belong?"

[DubaiSis]

^^^I think that's a really interesting question. And while I don't KNOW the answer, my guess is the process started just because that's what private clubs do. Junior League to Exchange Club all require recommendations, regardless of how seriously an individual club will take that process.

But considering the NPC sororities don't seem to have fought too hard against the race issue (we did adapt relatively early in the civil rights movement, if not exactly warmly or across the board), I would guess it wasn't with malice, just an unknowing sense of entitlement. Many women throughout the last 50 years (and still) don't get that the process alone of requiring a rushee to get recs can be racist or classist (and yes, I agree that it is more classist than racist).

I would love for this to be the reason that all sororities eliminate the requirement for them. But we know how much my opinion is worth.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I don't think that's true, but even if it is, it doesn't somehow erase the institutional racism.

Did I say it erased the institutional racism? I still find that NPC sorority life is just as classist as it is racist. I did not write that it is not racist at all, did I?

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Historically white sororities and fraternities are institutionally racist by their very nature. That doesn't mean that individual chapters and members aren't doing good things, but if your organization favors legacies or women with recs, you are automatically expressing a preference for white membership.

Aside from any racial implications, legacy status and recs have always kind of bothered me. And again, I'll preface this by saying that I come from a small recruitment system.

While both legacy status and recs most likely helped in the past, I think they're becoming less and less important in the grand scheme of things. Not that I'm arguing that getting recs isn't important for a successful recruitment (in some places), but that their overall influence has been lost. The same goes for legacy status, as there are now too many legacies going through recruitment. And I know some sororities require that legacies make it to a certain round in the recruitment process, which can sometimes tie the hands of individual chapters. But I won't delve into specific NPC sorority policies here.

The legacy problem is clear: with the exponential increase in membership year after year, there will only be more and more legacies, the "specialness" goes away, and the numbers become too much to handle.

As for recs: I've asked it here before and I'll ask it again... why can't a recommendation come from a teacher, a coach, a pastor, an employer, a mentor, etc. of a PNM instead of a sorority alumna? Why does it make more sense for a girl to desperately search for a rec from anyone and everyone, just to check off a box that essentially says, "This person barely knows me, but they think I'm great!" than to have a formal recommendation from a person who knows the girl and can truly vouch for her?

I think that sororities miss out on the opportunity to meet some amazing women because of legacies/recs. And no, I'm not saying that chapters are struggling for members and NEED more women to sign up for recruitment. I'm saying that there are probably some fantastic potential members who don't have the same opportunities as others, who start out at the bottom or behind, who don't know anything about recs, who get cut for not being related to a member, or for a number of other reasons that really are a shame.

[AnchorAlumna]

With MUCH shorter new member periods, I think recommendations are more important than ever. Check out a PNM beforehand, and you can avoid some drama and other unfortunate behavior that results in a hot mess that has to be untangled later and possibly affect the chapter's reputation.

That said, ya'll are giving WAY too much weight to legacy status. Being a legacy is not really that big a deal. In many cases it is a very small percentage of the total number of PNMs. Yes, theoretically, the precentage may increase over time. It's never a guarantee of a bid.

Recommendations - that's one reason many alumnae panhellenics put together teas and info sessions for PNMs and collect info packets. I just wish alum panhellenics and the assistance with recs was more widespread.

We're never going to persuade each other to our own point of view. We're going to have to agree to disagree.