Indiana University 2014 Recruitment

[SWTXBelle]

Looking in vain for "every girl should get a bid" quote from "everyone" . . .

[TennisMom]

Thanks to whomever posted the IU Board of Trustees email address. Here is an excerpt of an email I just sent them.

I am sharing my daughter’s experience with you for one reason. Despite how impressed I’ve been by the KSB and the genuine friendliness and helpfulness of every person I’ve ever spoken with at IU I will share the following message with EVERY prospective young woman I can - DO NOT ENROLL AT IU-Bloomington if you think you MIGHT want to be in a sorority. The process is brutal and a crap shoot. Had I known how limited the number of bids are relative to girls going through recruitment I never would have encouraged my daughter to attend IU. I was not in a sorority but through research I’ve learned that IU’s recruitment process results in far more heartbreak than other other school with comparable PNMs.

Is being in a sorority a right for every college girl? Of course not and you can have a wonderful college experience without being a sister (I’m proof of that!). However, what I do expect from a university is that it will implement processes and procedures that are designed to maximize the opportunities. Providing more sorority housing and changing current recruitment processes would be steps in the right direction. But, until I see evidence of this happening I will be a vocal “BEWARE” voice to any prospective female student. It may be too late for my daughter but I will do my best to alert others to the likely misery awaiting them at IU.

P.S. And while it's not in my excerpt...my email does mention that my daughter is a TWO-TIME casualty of IU recruitment. Even with high grades, strong campus involvement and friends in sororities the process did not end differently this year. I am incredibly proud of my daughter for her resiliency and strength. She understands this isn't the end of the world and other opportunities are available. It's a shame though since other schools seem to have better processes.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by Hoosierxgirl

Maybe this is the wrong time to bring this up but I've been thinking today about what adding 20-30 more women to my pledge class would have done to my experience. I'm sure it would've been mostly positive - more women to get to know, more diversity, etc. Then I started to think about all the logistics - risk management, planning events, etc. Even silly things like chapter meetings. Where would we put another 70-100 girls (if each pledge class was increased)? Would it be responsible to have our risk management chair and Exec board in charge of another 100 women? Some of the chapters at IU are already some of the largest chapters of their respective GLO - I just wonder if the current infrastructure of our chapters would be able to support a dramatic increase in membership. I guess it would be done over time but I think these are considerations that need to be made. I'd be lying if I didn't acknowledge that a lot of resistance to change at IU is because of the exclusivity factor of recruitment - if you happen to make it through the Games, you consider yourself a survivor and expect the same selection process of future pledge classes.

Like I said before, I know how heartbreaking this process is. It's not fair but I also don't know how much else can be done to expand the current size of chapters under a quota system.

I have to say I am starting to get a little peeved at people saying the sisterhood isn't as good because of bigger pledge classes. So yeah - some of our families are bigger, doesn't mean you love your sisters less or have less love to go around.

Come on down any time and we can show you how logistics works. You don't have one person in charge of putting together events - you have a committee. Then you aren't dependent on just one person who could get sick the day before recruitment.

You don't have formal at a tiny hotel or in the student union, you have it at a event center, the Fox Theater, or the country club like a benefit or a fundraiser. We don't drive places, we take a bus.

We get it. You like exclusivity, and you like looking down your noses at people. (BTW - Texas A&M, U. Texas, The Ohio State, Penn State, Florida - are all bigger than IUB AND have flourishing Greek life AND they rank higher too.)

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by Maman

Are all the Alabama housing costs subsidized by the university, fully supported by national, or do the current members bear the burden of the cost? Specifically questioning about the newly built houses.

Checking back through IU history via the internet and it seems that one of the larger 'housed' sororities didn't meet quota.

There seem to be plenty of questions about the IU process.

All Greek housing at Alabama is paid for by the group that owns it - room rent, parlor fees/living out fees, meals, etc. The individual group's budget has to pay the freight...including the mortgage. At schools where the U owns the housing, they still have to pay rent to the U - for instance, Willamette, NCSU, Auburn, etc, etc, etc. NO ONE gives us any housing!

[Hoosierxgirl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I...can't think of a single chapter for which that is true.

I can't claim this as a fact but it's something I heard when I went through recruitment (as in chapters claimed this fact). If they are not the LARGEST, they are certainly on the larger side. What I'm saying is that the physical houses themselves may not be conducive to holding a chapter meeting or sisterhood event for 200 women. (This is purely anecdotal on my end...we barely fit our current chapter in the dining room for chapter or formal dinners). I also think of all the things that we did that would not be doable with 100 additional women - the logistics, the time, the stress - all of it takes time away from studying, other activities, etc. Maybe it's doable - I don't know. I just think it's a point of consideration.

Originally Posted by carnation

:

I'm not saying this is my view but it is certainly a popular view at IU.

[Hoosierxgirl]

Originally Posted by HQWest

I have to say I am starting to get a little peeved at people saying the sisterhood isn't as good because of bigger pledge classes. So yeah - some of our families are bigger, doesn't mean you love your sisters less or have less love to go around.

Come on down any time and we can show you how logistics works. You don't have one person in charge of putting together events - you have a committee. Then you aren't dependent on just one person who could get sick the day before recruitment.

You don't have formal at a tiny hotel or in the student union, you have it at a event center, the Fox Theater, or the country club like a benefit or a fundraiser. We don't drive places, we take a bus.

We get it. You like exclusivity, and you like looking down your noses at people. (BTW - Texas A&M, U. Texas, The Ohio State, Penn State, Florida - are all bigger than IUB AND have flourishing Greek life AND they rank higher too.)

Whoa whoa whoa...I NEVER said anything about how good or bad a sisterhood would be. Big or small. In fact, I said the experience would be mostly positive.

I am saying that it would be a large adjustment and that the logistics would be harder to overcome for a system that isn't used to such large chapters (I tend to think 150 women is pretty large) I think we already do many of things you just described (event centers, buses, committees, etc.) as well.

I'm not saying it can't be done or it shouldn't be done. I'm just pointing out one little reason why suddenly switching to a quota system would be hard.

And again, I'm not turning my nose up at anyone. I'm pointing out a popular opinion that has been raised in my time at IU. I do not condone that opinion nor do I claim to hold it.

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by TAMUAlphaPhi

I'm offended on so many levels -- particularly for all the sorority members/alumnae who endured those sorority experiences that are "nothing special."

I don't think I've seen anyone in this thread advocate for a system where every PNM gets what they want or even just finds a place. What I see is women who are struggling with a system that places a significantly lower percentage of PNMs than others.

After days of debate, I still haven't heard a compelling explanation of why a system that works on almost every other campus won't work at IU. Lack of off-campus housing options adds an interesting complication, but the students who don't participate in Greek life (either by choice, because they just aren't a good fit for Greek life or because they were "victims" of IU's low quotas) seem to make it work.

Because there is no compelling explanation. No reason. No evidence. No data.

The posts from Hoosierxgirl and Dtjb confirm what we know to be true. You guys at Indiana want it that way because you are elitist. "We survived, we are the chosen, we are going to perpetuate this system."

As for large - I don't think any of the Indiana chapters are 200+, and total at Arizona is 220 with many chapters at 250+. We've adjusted quite well. There is nothing special about having chapter meetings at a facility. Trust me. It works very well in an on-campus room with all kinds of electronics/technology at the actives' fingertips. And we've learned how to develop our sisterhood, thank you. You could ask us for tips on how to make it work. When we started growing by leaps and bounds, we reached out - to each other on campus as well as to other chapters across the country (think Arkansas, Ole Miss) who are large and who make it work for them.

I am appalled. Shame on you, Indiana actives. Please note I'm not singling out the two who've posted here.

Further, it is the Chapter's responsibility to see that the facility is filled. NOT the House Corporation Board's responsibility! The Chapter needs to figure out how they are going to fill the facility and from the sound of it, that won't be a problem.

[Rhomom]

"And the Rho Gamma who told her group that they should rank the unhoused chapters last because they have to take everyone should be ashamed of herself and be reported. NOW. As a Rho Gamma you should be impartial, you should not make blanket statements about how to rank, and you should not perpetuate falsehoods that “those chapters have to invite everyone back.” It’s just ridiculous, and NOT TRUE."

Said no Rho gamma ever.

Sorry for the length of this-and I have never posted before, but I have a different perspective--as an Indiana grad who went through the system 25 years ago and did not receive a bid, as the mother of twins who went through recruitment two years ago--one received a bid and one went bidless, and as a mother of a current rhogam, (who has been in tears continually for the past week), I am here to tell you that regardless of who you are, what your current status is (PNM, active, rhogam, mom), this process is brutal for everyone.

To moms whose hearts are breaking because this has been so difficult; I know how frustrated and angry you are--I lived it. But also know that there is not one current active who finds this anything but agonizing. They, like the PNM's have not eaten, have not slept and are absolutely disgusted by the process.

To the poster that said that taking more members makes it less special? That chapters should be exclusive? You are dead wrong--most of these ladies would do anything to be able to make this system more inclusive. Comments such as this serve to only perpetuate the perception of "mean girls". There may indeed be some of those as well, but they do not represent the majority of women in houses.

Regarding the unhoused chapters; I have never heard one negative comment from my daughter or any of her sisters, friends, or acquaintances. PNM's may be hearing that these houses are "less than" from each other, but they are NOT hearing it from current actives. In fact the Greek system has welcomed and supported the expansion--it can only strengthen the system.

And as far as a rhogam encouraging PNMs to rank unhoused chapters higher because they "take everyone"? I would carefully question the PNM who thinks she may have heard that comment. Based on what my daughter has said, and the absolute commitment of these young women to provide support and counsel to PNM's, it is much more likely that this was a comment generated from assumptions because a rhogam encouraged her group to not rank by perceived reputation.

Lastly, IU admissions has no control over the current system, nor does the administration, the board of trustees or the dean of students. Short of removing sororities from campus, their hands are tied. I know this because I am also an IU "employee". Believe me, we are bracing for unhappy students and parents, and are very, very tired of the way things are done. The only people that can change this is panhel, individual nationals and NPC.

[UofISigKap]

Originally Posted by Dtjb

...Sounds to me like unless "all get a bid" it's not going to be fair to the moms. There's nothing special about some thing that everyone can just get. If that's how Alabama does it then it must not be all that special to be in a house...

I respect your right to have an opinion, but I think you're confusing trophies for all vs. matching more women who had friends/connections/people pulling for them but missed the house-selected number cut bythismuch. Someone else posted earlier on that first cut is the same as last cut. The only difference is your house may have actually really wanted the woman first cut. I'm not saying take everyone, because I recognize that not every woman would feel comfortable in every house.

"It must not be all that special to be in a house in Alabama." Nooo, not everyone gets a bid in Alabama either, but they recognize that even their most coveted houses (by whatever standard you want to use) can, and do, take more women they want by using the same quota that the other chapters do. Is the system at Alabama still exclusive? Yes; we wouldn't have as many threads about southern recruitments, teas, letters of rec., etc... if just anyone could strut into their system.

[Griffins&Quills]

Originally Posted by HQWest

I have to say I am starting to get a little peeved at people saying the sisterhood isn't as good because of bigger pledge classes. So yeah - some of our families are bigger, doesn't mean you love your sisters less or have less love to go around.

Come on down any time and we can show you how logistics works. You don't have one person in charge of putting together events - you have a committee. Then you aren't dependent on just one person who could get sick the day before recruitment.

You don't have formal at a tiny hotel or in the student union, you have it at a event center, the Fox Theater, or the country club like a benefit or a fundraiser. We don't drive places, we take a bus.

We get it. You like exclusivity, and you like looking down your noses at people. (BTW - Texas A&M, U. Texas, The Ohio State, Penn State, Florida - are all bigger than IUB AND have flourishing Greek life AND they rank higher too.)

This. All of this! I've just been following this thread, but I agree completely. My campus has 7 groups and our total is at 164 and we have more girls rushing each year and are taking larger pledge classes, further increasing total. We operate normally. People can choose to live in the house, or not. There is no required time to live in. Members get charged parlor fees. We meet for chapter in a lecture hall every week. We have events. We have formal at aforementioned large venues, and we take buses. Our Chapter Life handles the Risk Management issues. It's not Alabama, but it's competitive in it's own way. And further, my sorority, our sororities, are plenty close. I know the name and details of every single one of my sisters. More sisters doesn't equal less closeness. And a forced live-in policy also doesn't equal closeness. Everyone else manages to make it work. While I respect that I haven't experienced IU, the posters making blanket statements about well, pretty much every other school, also haven't experienced our cultures. Don't think your way is the only way. It's not.

[cinder1965]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

Because there is no compelling explanation. No reason. No evidence. No data.

The posts from Hoosierxgirl and Dtjb confirm what we know to be true. You guys at Indiana want it that way because you are elitist. "We survived, we are the chosen, we are going to perpetuate this system."

As for large - I don't think any of the Indiana chapters are 200+, and total at Arizona is 220 with many chapters at 250+. We've adjusted quite well. There is nothing special about having chapter meetings at a facility. Trust me. It works very well in an on-campus room with all kinds of electronics/technology at the actives' fingertips. And we've learned how to develop our sisterhood, thank you. You could ask us for tips on how to make it work. When we started growing by leaps and bounds, we reached out - to each other on campus as well as to other chapters across the country (think Arkansas, Ole Miss) who are large and who make it work for them.

I am appalled. Shame on you, Indiana actives. Please note I'm not singling out the two who've posted here.

Further, it is the Chapter's responsibility to see that the facility is filled. NOT the House Corporation Board's responsibility! The Chapter needs to figure out how they are going to fill the facility and from the sound of it, that won't be a problem.

This.

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by Hoosierxgirl

Whoa whoa whoa...I NEVER said anything about how good or bad a sisterhood would be. Big or small. In fact, I said the experience would be mostly positive.

I am saying that it would be a large adjustment and that the logistics would be harder to overcome for a system that isn't used to such large chapters (I tend to think 150 women is pretty large) I think we already do many of things you just described (event centers, buses, committees, etc.) as well.

I'm not saying it can't be done or it shouldn't be done. I'm just pointing out one little reason why suddenly switching to a quota system would be hard.

And again, I'm not turning my nose up at anyone. I'm pointing out a popular opinion that has been raised in my time at IU. I do not condone that opinion nor do I claim to hold it.

Mostly positive is by definition not positive.
And just because it is different then your experience does not mean it could not be as good or better.

[pinksequins]

Hoosierxgirl, I am sorry you have such a parochial view of the world that you haven't a clue how to manage alternate logistics or to even reach out to others who do. It's an amazingly useful life skill.

Tellingly and sadly, the Hoosier rationalizations are just that -- rationalizations -- not compelling reasons. It's very small thinking.

[pinksequins]

Rhomom -- you note that the actives are disgusted with the process. The good news is that they are the ones with the power to change it.

[stbemtpynest]

Originally Posted by pinksequins

Rhomom -- you note that the actives are disgusted with the process. The good news is that they are the ones with the power to change it.

^^^ This! I don't understand - if they are disgusted with the process then why is it still the process?