Diversity in the SEC

[28StGreek]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Nor does the NPHC (in general) typically claim diversity or to be seeking diversity.

Is that just your personal opinion or is that actually a widely held view by NPHC members? Regardless, I find that kind of attitude to be disturbing if you at the same time criticise the lack of diversity of other groups.

I have never once felt that the colour of my skin or my race had negatively impacted my Greek experience at USC. As someone who grew up outside of America, I always found it so perplexing that there were communities who would make a storm about race relation issues, toleration and acceptance; yet at the same time cling on so tightly to their minority identity.

[amIblue?]

This thread has now tipped a hat to Jesus loves the little children AND Ebony & Ivory!

I don't have a point. Just saying.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 28StGreek

Is that just your personal opinion or is that actually a widely held view by NPHC members? Regardless, I find that kind of attitude to be disturbing if you at the same time criticise the lack of diversity of other groups.

I stand to be corrected—I certainly could have missed it as this is a long thread—but I haven't seen DrPhil criticize NPC orgs for lack of diversity. I think she's made pretty clear she's not doing that.

What I have seen her question are the ideas that having a relatively small percentage of African American or other minority members = real diversity or that suggesting "they are just sisters/brothers and no one notices the color of their skin" = real diversity. I admit that I'm with her in thinking that attempts at "colorblindness" are in many ways the opposite of diversity, as they reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator instead of acknowledging what actually makes people diverse.

DrPhil can speak for herself—I have no doubt of that—but what she's been saying seems pretty clear to me: If groups prefer not to be diverse, that's fine. But if they want to be diverse, then they should dive in and work at really being diverse, including understanding why they aren't diverse already, not just be satisfied an appearance of diversity.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 28StGreek

Is that just your personal opinion or is that actually a widely held view by NPHC members?

I typed about this pages ago. If you understand the general purposes behind the NPHC sororities and fraternities, you will understand why we nationally do not tout racial diversity and particularly non-minorities. Even the more racially and ethnically diverse NPHC sorority and fraternity are still majority people of the African diaspora (across ethnicities, languages, cultures, and continents). This is not by accident.

Individual chapters do whatever they do based on their campus and city environments but that is their choice. Even these chapters know that diversity does not mean ignoring different racial and ethnic histories and identities. It also doesn't mean that white aspirants (using white as an example) can become members without any understanding of the racial and ethnic identities and history of the majority of the membership. Some of us see it comparable to knowing the history and present day significance (and subjectivity) of notions of gender, womanhood, and feminism if you want to join a sorority.

Originally Posted by 28StGreek

Regardless, I find that kind of attitude to be disturbing if you at the same time criticise the lack of diversity of other groups.

Show me where I criticize the lack of diversity of other groups.

Originally Posted by 28StGreek

I have never once felt that the colour of my skin or my race had negatively impacted my Greek experience at USC. As someone who grew up outside of America, I always found it so perplexing that there were communities who would make a storm about race relation issues, toleration and acceptance; yet at the same time cling on so tightly to their minority identity.

People who type what you typed cannot be the least bit concerned with diversity. You first need to understand the "why" and "how"--and stop pretending that racial and ethnic identities are a bad thing--before you claim to want diversity. That is what some of us have been saying for pages. I would have never been attracted to a GLO in which the majority of members say what you said in the bolded part of your post. I also would have never been attracted to a GLO in which the majority of members say "we don't see race, ethnicity, and culture...we are just sistersssssssssss...."

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I stand to be corrected—I certainly could have missed it as this is a long thread—but I haven't seen DrPhil criticize NPC orgs for lack of diversity. I think she's made pretty clear she's not doing that.

You are correct. But, pretending I am criticizing NPC-NIC diversity is more fun than the real point being made.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

What I have seen her question are the ideas that having a relatively small percentage of African American or other minority members = real diversity or that suggesting "they are just sisters/brothers and no one notices the color of their skin" = real diversity. I admit that I'm with her in thinking that attempts at "colorblindness" are in many ways the opposite of diversity, as they reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator instead of acknowledging what actually makes people diverse.

DrPhil can speak for herself—I have no doubt of that—but what she's been saying seems pretty clear to me: If groups prefer not to be diverse, that's fine. But if they want to be diverse, then they should dive in and work at really being diverse, including understanding why they aren't diverse already, not just be satisfied an appearance of diversity.

Thanks, pal. You are now free to allow your eyes to glaze over. Your job of providing my Yacked Butt Cliff Notes is done.

[PersistentDST]

Originally Posted by 28StGreek

Is that just your personal opinion or is that actually a widely held view by NPHC members?

I'll have to agree with my Soror. I try my best not to speak for any whole group of people. I'll speak for myself and say that I've never seen an emphasis placed on diversifying. We were certainly taught that there were woman of many races, ethnicities, cultures, religions, sexual orientations, etc. within Delta. We were also taught that no matter what, they are our sisters and we are working towards the same goals. So we do accept and respect diversity, I don't think we necessarily seek it out.

One of the first people who followed me on my social networks after I crossed was a White Soror. I found out she had crossed a few days before me and we chatted. My assumption is that she knew what she was getting into when she became a Delta interest. While we do serve many communities, much of our emphasis is in the Black community, so as long as an interest (who may not be like the majority) is down for our causes, then I'm not going to worry about her race, just how much work she does for the org.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Thanks, pal. You are now free to allow your eyes to glaze over. Your job of providing my Yacked Butt Cliff Notes is done.

Finally! What a relief—my eyes are so tired and ready to glaze over!

[Sen's Revenge]

Originally Posted by 28StGreek

Is that just your personal opinion or is that actually a widely held view by NPHC members? Regardless, I find that kind of attitude to be disturbing if you at the same time criticise the lack of diversity of other groups.

It depends on the organization.

From Zeta Phi Beta:

Founder Viola Tyler was oft quoted to say "[In the ideal collegiate situation] there is a Zeta in a girl regardless of race, creed, or color, who has high standards and principles, a good scholarly average and an active interest in all things that she undertakes to accomplish."

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

It depends on the organization.

From Zeta Phi Beta:

Founder Viola Tyler was oft quoted to say "[In the ideal collegiate situation] there is a Zeta in a girl regardless of race, creed, or color, who has high standards and principles, a good scholarly average and an active interest in all things that she undertakes to accomplish."

How beautifully stated!

[DrPhil]

Yet Zeta Phi Beta is non-coincidentally predominantly women of the African diaspora. I wonder how that happened. That founder who made that statement was probably not pushing diversity as a must have in order to sustain or improve Zeta. If that was her goal, some would argue that a predominantly African diaspora GLO has defied the founders' visions. That Zeta founder was perhaps stating an unofficial anti-discrimination clause and expressing the value and potential membership of women across race and ethnicity. Zeta is not the only NPHC GLO with an unofficial or official anti-discrimination clause. And Zeta is not the only NPHC GLO that remains non-coincidentally predominantly Africa diaspora even with that clause.

[Titchou]

I was not taking it as a push for diversity but rather as Panhellenic and/or Pan-Hellenic statement of a broader sisterhood...somewhat along the lines of the Kipling verse that reads "for the Colonel's lady and Judy O'Grady are sisters under the skin."

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Yet Zeta Phi Beta is non-coincidentally predominantly women of the African diaspora. I wonder how that happened. That founder who made that statement was probably not pushing diversity as a must have in order to sustain or improve Zeta. If that was her goal, some would argue that a predominantly African diaspora GLO has defied the founders' visions. That Zeta founder was perhaps stating an unofficial anti-discrimination clause and expressing the value and potential membership of women across race and ethnicity. Zeta is not the only NPHC GLO with an unofficial or official anti-discrimination clause. And Zeta is not the only NPHC GLO that remains non-coincidentally predominantly Africa diaspora even with that clause.

Most of the NPC groups had official non-discriminatory clauses--even from the beginning. BUT--so much segregation is implied. For example--many of the 26 NPC sororities were founded in the late 1800s/early 1900s when there wouldn't be any black women at a PWI in the south or Midwest.

I'm not pushing for diversity for either council. People will hang out with who they want to hang out with.

[DrPhil]

@ Titchou: I understand what you're saying.

When I say the NPHC national bodies are not pushing diversity across race, that means we have unofficial and official anti-discrimination clauses and practices. But we do not pretend our racial demographics are by accident and we do not pretend we want our racial demographics to substantially change such that our membership is overwhelmingly non-African diaspora. Individual chapters can have different demographics but most chapters of all NPHC GLOs are predominantly African diaspora.

That isn't by accident. We can love everyone and welcome non-African diaspora members without pretending we envision true racial and ethnic diversity. The non-African diaspora members are still the minority in NPHC GLOs. After 50+ years of that, it is safe to say that is not coincidental.

@ Munchkin: I agree 100%.

[28StGreek]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I stand to be corrected—I certainly could have missed it as this is a long thread—but I haven't seen DrPhil criticize NPC orgs for lack of diversity. I think she's made pretty clear she's not doing that.

I didn't say she was criticizing NPC organizations for lack of diversity.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

As I have also said a couple of times in this thread, my posts are not about diversity in the SEC but about a larger point that is often missed.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Some of you were discussing diversity in the SEC. Some of us were addressing a larger issue.

I took it from those statements to mean that this talk of diversity had gone beyond collegiate organizations and that that larger issue was ethnicity/racial/diversity in general.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

The notion of faux colorblindness and tokenism have made people (read: usually many white people) pretend that having a few nonwhites is a quick solution to a silent issue and therefore you (in general) can claim diversity based on a small percent of the total population.
...
As long as predominantly white organizations keep pretending that race is not intentionally and/or unintentionally part of their foundation and general makeup, there will be no diversity. That is fine if there is no diversity but you (in general) cannot then pretend that race is not part of your foundation and general makeup. Keep pretending your demographic makeup is mere coincidence, and keep pretending that whiteness is invisible and race neutral and only nonwhite organizations are founded or rooted in race and ethnicity, and you will keep running in circles regarding "diversity."

Is this not criticism of white groups in general? Please correct me if I had failed to comprehend your intended meaning.

[28StGreek]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

stop pretending that racial and ethnic identities are a bad thing

Maybe I have incorrectly understood the context of this sentence but when I read this all I can think of is Bosnia. Heck elsewhere in the Balkans and all the Yugoslav wars. I could continue with Chechnya, Kashmir, Rwanda, Israel-Palestine.