Diversity in the SEC

[LXA SE285]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

LOL. People claim Eleanor Roosevelt like she was setting it off on the yard.

"One's milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. One would teach you, but one would have to charge."

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

LOL. People claim Eleanor Roosevelt like she was setting it off on the yard.

There was a white Delta on GC for a while.

I don't think the SEC wants more diversity as a goal. I remember seeing black rushees at UF back in the early 90s. This was before the boom in attendance due to the National Championships and Bright Futures, but back then they were relegated to a few "bottom-tier" chapters. I suspected even then that they were more interested in being NPC than adding diversity to their chapters, LOL.

LOL. Roosevelt was doing hand signs by the plot.

Are you saying there is a larger goal?

Originally Posted by LXA SE285

"One's milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. One would teach you, but one would have to charge."

This thread has come full circle. You win. LOL.

Eleanor Roosevelt's facial expression says "you want to be down with MY sorority?! Kick my greeting! Now go feed the homeless miners! Do what you feel in your heart to be right--for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do, and damned if you don't."

[rockwallgreek]

Originally Posted by TNAuburnMom

Well, bless your heart. Since you don't know my background, let me tell you a little story.

My father spent 26 years in the military, which was desegregated long before the general population. We Army brats that lived on military posts our entire childhood are a unique group. Children of all races, colors, creeds, and backgrounds lived together in small areas. We went to school together, to chapels together, played sports together, tried to learn new languages and cultures together and even attended funerals together as parents were killed in the line of duty. Skin color was about as important as eye color when deciding who to play with, who to be friends with, who to ask to prom, who to date, and who to eventually marry. What you consider a racial cliche was our reality. My black friends, Asian friends, white friends, Hispanic friends, Native American friends, Puerto Rican friends, gay friends, (for the record, at one point in my teenage years, I went on at least one date with guys in each of the categories above) lesbian friends, straight friends from high school didn't spend every day worried about how we were all different from each other. Our agenda consisted of living our lives and hoping no soldiers in Class As knocked on the door.

We raised our children right outside a military post with the same beliefs. The only trait of any real importance is the content of one's character.

When my daughter talks about member's of her sorority, I hear about "my sister Mary" or "my sister Kim" and when I ask which one Kim is (because I have a hard time keeping it straight), I hear "the biology major that lives on the hall" not "one of the several minority girls in the sorority". I am sure there are sororities at Auburn that would never offer a bid to a minority. Fortunately, my daughter is not in one of them. They don't have tokens. They have sisters.

As a mom who raised 4 daughters, all members of an NPC, and two of those daughters who are looking to adopt, and both are totally welcoming to a child in need, the military lifestyle is different. To quote a song, "red and yellow, black and white" plus we learned about Intuits and Eskimos during a tour in Alaska, the military lifestyle is different.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by 28StGreek

This is anecdotal as it has been quite a few years since it occured. When I was on our campus' Greek Diversity Encouragement Council. I remember none of the NPHC groups wanted to take part in it. It was as if they preferred being themselves racially segregated yet at the same time point out about the 'white' dominance of IFC and NPC glos. I also remember how we made a point that the traditionally NPC/IFC Songfest philanthropy event was open to NPHC groups (as well as other groups like Dorm/Residential Orgs) but I think only Alpha Phi Alpha took up the offer, and it only happened once. And on top of that I remember various Greek town hall-stye meetings where NPHC members were invited, as well as the other greek councils, their participation was minimal.

As I stated in another recent thread about NPHC participation, understand that the priorities for NPHC orgs are not the same for NPC/IFC orgs.

NPHC orgs are first and foremost community-service based. So social events like songfests are just not top priority.

Undergradute NPHC chapters are under direct supervision from their sponsoring graduate / alumnae chapter. For example, I am a member of the Gamma Sigma graduate chapter. My graduate chapter advises three undergrad chapters: 1) TAMU, 2) Sam Houston State, and 3) UH Central Campus.

Each undergraduate chapter is expected to attend certain events as outlined by the sponsoring grad chapter. Thus, each undergrad member is expected to attend those events, meetings, and conferences of the organization.

I will use my org as an example. For this academic year, we expect the members of our undergraduate chapters to attend an Area meeting, our fall fundraiser in November, our fundraiser in Feb / March, and the Regional meeting next Spring semester. And, if it is a Boule' year, they also have to attend Boule'.

So, NPHC undergraduate chapters adhere to the policies of their sponsoring grad chapter, and national organization first. Any other events on campus that are not in direct alignment with the NPHC org's policies are not high on the campus chapter's list of things to do.

[DrPhil]

LOL. Did she quote "Jesus loves the little children"?

If only humans were so simplistic.

What does an Alaskan tour featuring Intuits and Eskimos have to do with the military being different and/or the issue of racial, ethnic, and cultural diversity?

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

LOL. Did she quote "Jesus loves the little children"?

If only humans were so simplistic.

What does an Alaskan tour featuring Intuits and Eskimos have to do with the military being different and/or the issue of racial, ethnic, and cultural diversity?

I think she was saying that the military experience isn't representative of the whole, as someone earlier was trying to allude to.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by rockwallgreek

As a mom who raised 4 daughters, all members of an NPC, and two of those daughters who are looking to adopt, and both are totally welcoming to a child in need, the military lifestyle is different. To quote a song, "red and yellow, black and white" plus we learned about Intuits and Eskimos during a tour in Alaska, the military lifestyle is different.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

LOL. Did she quote "Jesus loves the little children"?

If only humans were so simplistic.

What does an Alaskan tour featuring Intuits and Eskimos have to do with the military being different and/or the issue of racial, ethnic, and cultural diversity?

Can everyone at least agree that it's "Inuit"?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I think she was saying that the military experience isn't representative of the whole, as someone earlier was trying to allude to.

I didn't think TNAuburnMom was claiming it to be representative of the whole. I thought TNAuburn was saying the military is different as though demographics and inequalities have no bearing.

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Can everyone at least agree that it's "Inuit"?

Yes, ma'am. I apologize to the Inuit.

[PersistentDST]

Originally Posted by 28StGreek

This is anecdotal as it has been quite a few years since it occured. When I was on our campus' Greek Diversity Encouragement Council. I remember none of the NPHC groups wanted to take part in it. It was as if they preferred being themselves racially segregated yet at the same time point out about the 'white' dominance of IFC and NPC glos. I also remember how we made a point that the traditionally NPC/IFC Songfest philanthropy event was open to NPHC groups (as well as other groups like Dorm/Residential Orgs) but I think only Alpha Phi Alpha took up the offer, and it only happened once. And on top of that I remember various Greek town hall-stye meetings where NPHC members were invited, as well as the other greek councils, their participation was minimal.

Not to give excuses, but here are some things to consider.
1. Numbers: Chapters are not generally having lines of 100+. The Delta chapter at my UG had 13 members at one point, but most of the time there was less. If a chapter has 7 members, it's a different ball game. The entire NPC chapter will not have to participate in a "Songfest," while a 7 member NPHC chapter would have to participate, not everyone wants to make that commitment. Anytime a small chapter makes a commitment, it has to be considered that ALL members would want to do it.

2. Commitments: Many members of NPHC chapters are also involved in other organizations. Many Black Student Unions have Greeks as board/committee members. This along with NPHC boards and orgs like NAACP, Greek Service Orgs, Bible Studies, Athletic Teams, Dance Teams, Political Orgs, etc. So if the 7 member NPHC chapter has 4 members on other boards, most likely the other 3 members are supporting those organizations as well. Adding more meetings, along with school and work is a bit much. I knew one Zeta who was on the Black Student Union board, NPHC board as well as her own chapter board. That's 4 meetings (Black student Union has exec board and general meetings) that she was running to, along with programs in those orgs.

I have a very close friend who is Black and a member if a IFC frat. He was also president of our Black Student Union and on the board for the College Democrats. He was worn out, so he couldn't always participate in every event. He had tons of brothers who could attend on his behalf, that isn't always an option for NPHC orgs.

3. National mandates: Most NPHC chapters have a full slate of national and regional programs that they have to participate. Schedules get pretty packed with these programs, meetings, service projects, etc. This isn't adding the social events, such as step shows, talent shows, fashion shows, parties, etc, which are often planned months in advance. We're not even adding factors like intake, or going to things other NPHC chapters are holding at nearby universities.

I know programs like Songfest require many months of planning and resources. They do it at my university as well. They have a lot of elaborate themes, costumes, sets, etc. But NPC/IFC groups know it is coming because it is discussed at their meetings constantly. Plus since it is done yearly, it's common knowledge to be prepared for the program. I'm curious to ask how much time in advance the non-NPC/IFC orgs were given to start working on something for Songfest. At my university it is a competition, so you have to put your best foot forward!

And maybe it is on a date when NPHC orgs have a program/meeting. I remember when my university hosted a stepshow and the NPC/IFC orgs were invited to attend. There were very few in attendance and initially it was disappointing, but then people found out some NPC/IFC orgs had a function at the same time. It shouldn't be assumed that NPHC members are just sitting on their behinds. Sometimes it is just not a priority.

Sorry for the novel.

[28StGreek]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

NPHC orgs are first and foremost community-service based. So social events like songfests are just not top priority.

"Songfest is one of the oldest and largest collegiate musical traditions in the country. It was started in the mid 1950s by two USC sophomores to help unify a diverse post WWII student body. Various student groups create a five-minute musical skit that encompasses the year’s theme, using original music or re-writing lyrics to popular songs.

Songfest involves more than 600 USC students and is attended by over 1,500 students, parents, and friends. It brings together residence halls, fraternities and sororities, the USC Marching Band, the USC Song Leaders, the Trojan Dance Force and various other campus organizations.

All the money raised from Songfest goes to benefit Troy Camp."

"Songfest is USC’s largest philanthropic event put on by students, as well as one of the oldest and largest collegiate musical traditions in the country. The musical show features numerous student organizations that compete against each other. The competition consists of creating and performing an extensive musical skit which encompasses the overall Songfest theme.

In addition to the themed skits, the show includes performances by some of USC’s finest dance groups and a cappella troupes."

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

It sounds as though the Greek Diversity Encouragement Council was something that came into being without NPHC involvement.

This is true; this describes the DEC's inception:

"The 24-year-old junior founded the program in fall, 1989, in an attempt to raise racial consciousness on Fraternity Row; the university officially adopted his program last year. Each fraternity and sorority at USC has been asked to appoint a race-relations chairperson to look out for minority pledges, a talk on race relations is given at each house every semester and if racial incidents occur at any of the houses, Diversity Encouragement sends speakers to sort things out.

Said Ferguson: "The reason I targeted the Greek system is because they are a captive audience. They meet in their houses every Monday night. (The university) deals with racism through (the Office of) Student Conduct, but even that was on an individual level and is after the fact. . . . They're not dealing with preventive work."

And from a time contemporary to my involvement:

"The Diversity Encouragement Council, founded in 1990, meets every week,
[discussing] diversity issues ranging from homophobia to the
treatment of people of color at parties...

The program has been a model used by other universities in Southern
California...

Although racial diversity still leaves much to be desired, the organizations are thriving in other areas, such as religious diversity and economic diversity."

And for anyone interested; in 2004:

"The 18 fraternities and 10 sororities that are represented the Panhellenic and Interfraternity councils have become more diverse over the past 10 years, as the percentage of white students has decreased from 88 percent to 76.3 percent"

Was it something that they asked for or suggested was needed? If not, it's not so strange that they didn't want to spend their limited time on it

Not being involved with the foundation of an organization shouldn't be a barrier to future involvement for the organization to evolve/develop.

Sounds like it was...designed for the benefit of NPC/NIC organizations.

Yes that is its main purpose, to benefit NPC/NIC organization but if the issue of diversity in the general population should involve everyone across all interests, why should it be different within a campus greek community?

Your post implies that NPHC orgs should have to dedicate their own time to improving other people's organizations in order to earn the right to point out that they are white-dominated.

I did not mean to imply that NPHC (or for that matter AGC, MGC or PFC organizations) should dedicate their own time. However, if the NPC/NIC organizations on our campus want to learn how to reach out/engage/have dialogue with various communities of the student body, surely we should be speaking to student leaders within those communities.

Lack of diversity in the NPC/NIC is not NPHC's problem to fix. If they were interested in helping out, I would think that was great, but I don't see why they should be expected to.

This is a fair point. My personal opinion is that I see the NPHC as not diverse (and in just terms or race/ethnicity) either. While I don't expect the NPHC to fix the NPC/NIC diversity problem, I would hope they would be interested in the value of helping within the greater context of diversity education in the general student population.

Based on this post I would hope at least DrPhil would agree with this opinion

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I'm discussing the larger point of race and ethnicity that can tie into GLOs. You cannot purport ANY kind of diversity (race, religion, sexual orientation, culture, etc) if there is no backdrop to the different groups represented. The different racial and ethnic groups represented have to assimilate into your GLO identity and offer their own insights

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by PersistentDST

Not to give excuses, but here are some things to consider.
1. Numbers: Chapters are not generally having lines of 100+. The Delta chapter at my UG had 13 members at one point, but most of the time there was less. If a chapter has 7 members, it's a different ball game. The entire NPC chapter will not have to participate in a "Songfest," while a 7 member NPHC chapter would have to participate, not everyone wants to make that commitment. Anytime a small chapter makes a commitment, it has to be considered that ALL members would want to do it.

THIS. My chapter participated in tons of other groups' softball games and basketball tournaments and talent shows, all philanthropic fundraisers. When I was philanthropy chair for a chapter of over 100 women, I was scrambling to get women to do all of these things, even considering the fact that probably one/person/semester would have been enough.

As I understand it, the NPHC groups have service events that are open to the public. Why aren't the NPC members just going to those events, if they are concerned about Greek Unity or whatever?

[28StGreek]

Originally Posted by PersistentDST

1. Numbers: Chapters are not generally having lines of 100+...

I must admit that in my ignorance I just did not consider this. And in hindsight NPHC members may already be very involved among the various groups performing

"Songfest involves more than 600 USC students and is attended by over 1,500 students, parents, and friends. It brings together residence halls, fraternities and sororities, the USC Marching Band, the USC Song Leaders, the Trojan Dance Force and various other campus organizations."

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by carnation

No Phil, you yacked your butt off and the eyes of GreekChat collectively glazed over. This thread has pretty much lost its audience; next time, you could tone it down.

My eyes have not glazed over at all.

Many good points have been raised in this thread—by you, by DrPhil and by others. The problem is that not everyone is talking about the same thing, so responses are couched in terms of what people think they're hearing or expect to hear, not what others are actually saying.

And seriously, anyone who hadn't caught on by now that when DrPhil "responds" to someone, she often isn't as much responding to that specific point as using it as a springboard to make a broader point—fairly standard among academics, in my experience—is either new or just not paying attention.

Originally Posted by Titchou

Two interesting things:

1) No one has asked me, as the OP, what I meant/intended by the question

and

2) At least one person has admitted to purposely not answering the questions but providing answers to questions which were not asked.

Seems counterproductive to me.

Actually, I think it's anything but counter-productive. It highlights that the majority may perceive and define what constitutes "diversity" quite differently from how members of minority groups might perceive and define it. Understanding that, and attempting to see what diversity might mean and look like from others' perspectives, is essential for any meaningful conversation about diversity.

[28StGreek]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

realizing that their own education is incomplete if they live in a white bubble.

Well then I am really glad that I feel my education is more complete

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 28StGreek

This is a fair point. My personal opinion is that I see the NPHC as not diverse (and in just terms or race/ethnicity) either. While I don't expect the NPHC to fix the NPC/NIC diversity problem, I would hope they would be interested in the value of helping within the greater context of diversity education in the general student population.

Nor does the NPHC (in general) typically claim diversity or to be seeking diversity. That is the difference between the NPHC (in general) as compared to some NPC and some NIC. Some NPC and some NIC claim they have no idea how their membership became majority white and they are now seeking diversity without first acknowledging how it became non-diverse in the first place.

I do not think the NPHC should assist NPC and NIC with diversity. NPC-NIC boasts plenty of resources and have plenty of fish jumping in your boats. You can probably handle this without needing an official seal of approval from the NPHC. I do, however, recall back when I was in college and some of the Black students (NPHC members and non-members) frequented some NPC-NIC events. We also invited NPC-NIC to our events. Other than our few white friends showing up, NPC-NIC members never showed up. That is absolutely fine because, as has been said on GC many times, none of us are obligated to show up. None of us are obligated to even care.

The problem is when people suddenly pretend they are never invited or that they are perplexed as to how outreach across races, ethnicities, and cultures should happen. It is also a problem when certain groups of people who have been ignoring minorities for years (under the guise of "we don't see race") claim they now need diversity training and an official seal of approval from racial and ethnic minorities. Some racial and ethnic minorities prefer when such outreach is sincere as opposed to being contacted only when we are "needed" to accomplish some task for the white people. I see NPC-NIC racial and ethnic diversity as another task that can be accomplished if the NPC-NIC really care and are willing to put forth the hard work. You all pay such attention to details and accomplish so many tasks on any given day. Therefore, there is no need to pretend you are suddenly clueless, baffled, and void of resources (when some people tell you "no" you have always been able to find some people who will tell you "yes").

Originally Posted by 28StGreek

Based on this post I would hope at least DrPhil would agree with this opinion

You omitted the last sentences of that post. The last sentences are why I do not agree with that opinion.