Chick-fil-a Support Day and Free Speech

[pshsx1]

Sorry I'm late to the parade, but I'm fired up. Bear with me.

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

It just deeply offends me when White gays act like they are the same "type" of minority that they can equate with being Black or Hispanic.

What I see is White gays do a very good job of trying to convince people that just because gays can't get married, then they are a minority that is akin to Blacks with respect to slavery and the after-effects of slavery in this country. I never buy it.

As I stated before, being Black and being gay are not the same thing with respect to being a minority.

An oppressed minority is still an oppressed minority. We're not having a dick measuring contest about who's had it worse.

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

My point is, in terms of minority, the idea that Whites consider themselves a minority is truly laughable to me me. As a group, they exercise more power and influence than anyone else. So I ask them, 'Where is the suffering?'

Don't Ask, Don't Tell; Defense of Marriage Act; Stonewall Riots; Matthew Shepard's murder in Laramie, WY... come on now. The list goes on. Don't want to be ignorant.

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Christianity is very deeply rooted in this country. And, in Christianity homosexuality is seen as sinful, along with other acts. So, if you ask me as a Christian, do I have a problem with gays, then yes I do because it does go against the Bible. I strive to live as close to God's word as possible.

But, I'm also wise enough to recognize that not everyone is a Christian. I'm also wise enough to know that people have the right to their own beliefs even though they differ from mine. So, in that respect, then I say live and let live.

If someone says they are not in support of gay marriage, as marriage defined by the Bible, then they have every right to express that openly in the same way that someone would express the opposite view.

HELLO. Do you realize that there was a time that the Bible "said" that it was wrong for black and whites to marry? It also "said" at some point that whites were worthy of blessings while people of color (POC) were animals. How about you actually take the time to study the text yourself as opposed to some ignorant fuck just spoon feeding bullshit into your mouth that you just say out of your ass.

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Bless your heart.

Homosexuality isn't a political issue at all. The political issue comes into play when people like you see homosexuals as second class citizens not worthy of equal protection of rights as heterosexual citizens. Your statements about how a white homosexual male could never be as oppressed as you is quite bold as well. In all seriousness, how the hell do you know? Everyone's journey is different in life and not everyone can "hide under the radar" like you assume they can or even choose to do. I really don't want to get into the Oppression Olympics here but I personally have gay friends that have been disowned from their families, have been forced out of their careers, have been arrested, have been gay-bashed so bad that they were hospitalized all based solely on their sexuality so your comment about how none of these individuals know oppression really ANNOYS me.

Amen.

Originally Posted by Senusret I

If you ate at Chick-fil-A yesterday, I hope you get salmonella poisoning and die.

Yes.

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Considering gay marriage is now an issue on many state ballots, where one is asked to vote for or against it, then yeah, it got to be pretty political at that point.

It has been a while since I had to take a US history and US government class, but as far as I remember, I never read or came across any moment in US history from the early - mid 1600's to today, where gays were forced into servitude just because they were gay. Nor do I recall any law needing to be passed to allows gays the right to vote because they were denied the right to vote simply because they are gay.

Firstly, see this quote about your first point:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

No. Letting the majority vote on the rights of the minority is not a good idea, and never has been.

Secondly, there are a lot of things that US history books don't mention. Some places don't learn about the significance of Black History Month. We also don't tend to mention the viciously imperialistic past of the US. Everything is just rainbows and sunshine under the stars and stripes! Most high school history books don't go into detail about the Vietnam War and how it wasn't yet another celebrated victory for bald eagles and freedom. Don't begin to tell me how gays haven't been oppressed because it wasn't in your history book.

Again, don't be ignorant because it's convenient. At least check Google before you talk out of your ass again.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

Sorry I'm late to the parade, but I'm fired up. Bear with me.

An oppressed minority is still an oppressed minority. We're not having a dick measuring contest about who's had it worse.

Don't Ask, Don't Tell; Defense of Marriage Act; Stonewall Riots; Matthew Shepard's murder in Laramie, WY... come on now. The list goes on. Don't want to be ignorant.


HELLO. Do you realize that there was a time that the Bible "said" that it was wrong for black and whites to marry? It also "said" at some point that whites were worthy of blessings while people of color (POC) were animals. How about you actually take the time to study the text yourself as opposed to some ignorant fuck just spoon feeding bullshit into your mouth that you just say out of your ass.



Secondly, there are a lot of things that US history books don't mention. Some places don't learn about the significance of Black History Month. We also don't tend to mention the viciously imperialistic past of the US. Everything is just rainbows and sunshine under the stars and stripes! Most high school history books don't go into detail about the Vietnam War and how it wasn't yet another celebrated victory for bald eagles and freedom. Don't begin tell me how gays haven't been oppressed.

Again, don't be ignorant because it's convenient. At least check Google before you talk out of your ass again.

To the bold: You've got to give me book, chapter and verse on this one. I have, and do, read the Bible, and I have never come across any passage that said that! Btw, I read the NIV of the Bible.


To the blue:I never did say gays have not been oppressed. My issue is when White gays want to act like they've been oppressed to the same extent as AfAm in the US.

To the rest, I'll stick to my guns.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

To the bold: You've got to give me book, chapter and verse on this one. I have, and do, read the Bible, and I have never come across any passage that said that! Btw, I read the NIV of the Bible.

First, notice the quotation marks in "said."

Religious text is about interpretation and understanding. Some people claim to take text literally and some people claim that there is an underlying meaning or things that can be inferred. Not everything that people of certain religions believe are explicitly stated in the religious text. Many people claim that their deity (deities) has specifically shown them that their interpretation of religious text (and their opinion/way they are living) is the true word of the deity (deities). If you get into a discussion of what religious text means or disagree with these people, these people will say they will pray (for the religions that call it prayer) that you get saved...or that you are the devil (for the religions that believe in a devil) incarnate.

With that said (no quotation marks)....

Originally Posted by source

We use the King James Version of the Bible here for copyright reasons.




Some of the passages are:

• Genesis 28:1: "And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan."

  Anti-miscegenationists typically interpret this verse after assuming that the Hebrews and Canaanites were of different races. Thus inter-marriage was forbidden on racial grounds. However, growing archeological and DNA evidence has revealed that the Hebrews originated as a sub-culture of Canaanites. Most theologians believe that the marriage prohibition in Genesis was grounded on a concern that the Hebrews would adopt the Pagan polytheistic religious beliefs and practices of nearby tribes if they were to marry outside of their culture. Thus the prohibition was based on religious, not racial differences.
  

• Leviticus 19:19: "Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind ..."

  "Gender" is translated as "mate" or "breed" in other English translations of the Bible. The term "kind" in the Bible can refer to a species of animal. However, creationists sometimes define "kind" as one created species (e.g. a proto-horse) from which many types of closely related animals (e.g. horse, zebra, donkey, perhaps even deer) developed. In this passage, the term "diverse kind" probably refers to different breeds of cattle. Today, this passage might refer to interbreeding of Holsteins and Guernsey's. This verse is part of the Holiness Code that was intended to keep behaviors of the Hebrews' different from that of the surrounding cultures. Most Jewish and Christian theologians believe that the Code does not apply to non-Jews.
  

• Deuteronomy 7:2-3: "And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.

  This is one of the passages in the Pentateuch -- the first five books in the Bible -- in which God orders the ancient Hebrews to engage in genocide against other tribes. They were to kill every elder, adult, youth, child, infant and newborn from among the Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites, Hittites, Hivites, Jebusites, and Perizzites without mercy. Anti-miscegenationists typically regard this as racially-based. However, a near consensus of Christian theologians regard this as religiously-based. God's concern appears to be that the Hebrews would marry Pagan polytheists, adopt the religions of the neighboring tribes, abandon worship of Yahweh, and become polytheistic.
  

• Deuteronomy 22:9: "Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with divers seeds: lest the fruit of thy seed which thou hast sown, and the fruit of thy vineyard, be defiled."

  The meaning of this verse is obscure in the King James Version. However, the New Living Translation describes this prohibiting the sowing another species of plant between the rows of grape bushes in a vineyard. If a farmer did this, he was forbidden to make use of either crop. If this verse is to be interpreted in terms of human mating, it would appear to refer to bestiality -- sexual behavior between a human and an animal. It appears to be unrelated to interracial marriage.
  

• Deuteronomy 23:2: "A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD."

  This verse is sometimes interpreted by anti-miscegenationists as implying that the children of a mixed-race couple, and their grandchildren etc., even onto the tenth generation, could not enter the temple. There is a general consensus among theologians that this passage refers to a child born outside of a marriage relationship, regardless of the race(s) of its parents.
  

• Jeremiah 13:23: "Can an Ethiopian change the color of his skin? Can a leopard take away its spots? Neither can you start doing good, for you have always done evil."

  At least one white supremacist group interprets this passage as implying that one cannot start with a Black-White interracial couple and produce White offspring. 2 However the clear sense of the verse appears to be that if a person has habitually committed evil deeds, it is almost impossible for them to change completely and start going only good.
  

http://www.religioustolerance.org/marracbib.htm/

[MysticCat]

^^^^^ And anyone quoting or referring to any of those passages will simply say "The Bible says . . . ."

Late for the attaboys to pshsx1, but here it is anyway.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

First, notice the quotation marks in "said."

Religious text is about interpretation and understanding. Some people claim to take text literally and some people claim that there is an underlying meaning or things that can be inferred. Not everything that people of certain religions believe are explicitly stated in the religious text. Many people claim that their deity (deities) has specifically shown them that their interpretation of religious text (and their opinion/way they are living) is the true word of the deity (deities). If you get into a discussion of what religious text means or disagree with these people, these people will say they will pray (for the religions that call it prayer) that you get saved...or that you are the devil (for the religions that believe in a devil) incarnate.

You're right. I agree with what you said above, because in my church we have never approached (and currently don't) those Scriptures to mean or imply the meaning that that is the justification as to why Whites and Blacks can not marry.

Now, I've heard other reason given, just not these passages as the reasons.

With that said (no quotation marks)....



http://www.religioustolerance.org/marracbib.htm/

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I never did say gays have not been oppressed. My issue is when White gays want to act like they've been oppressed to the same extent as AfAm in the US.

I don't see why you're not understanding. See below:

Originally Posted by pshsx1

An oppressed minority is still an oppressed minority. We're not having a dick measuring contest about who's had it worse.

And I believe that PiKA or MysticCat said that you have absolutely no idea what hardships an individual has been through. How much actual hate and oppression have you experienced? This isn't the time that we talk about our ancestors who were chained up on the boat and our grandparents who faced the hoses in the South; this is about us, right now.

Hell, if we really want to play in the Oppression Olympics, let's talk about Native Americans, shall we?

So, for the last time, stop bringing up the "fact" that the LGBTQ community hasn't had it as hard as the African-American community. (since you love this face so much)


Anyway, the ultimate point of this conversation is that if you went to Chick-Fil-A for food, especially on Huckabee Appreciation Day, you are supporting homophobia, heterosexism, and heterocentrism. Congrats.

Saving you a Google trip:
Heterocentrism - the societal ideology that heterosexuality is normal, better, and expected.
Heterosexism - a system of oppression that assumes all people are heterosexual
Homophobia - the fear, hatred, or discomfort with individuals who do not identify as heterosexual

[SWTXBelle]

http://www.perrynoble.com/2012/08/01...46965925417366

"It simply needs to be pointed out that people on both sides of this argument have been way less than civil with each other…which does nothing more than proves the insecurity in us if we feel like we have to “lower the boom” on people who do not see exactly as we see. Honestly, it is my prayer that people on both sides of the argument would stop yelling at each other and talking about one another and actually sit down and talk to one another understanding that just because two people do not agree on an issue does not mean they have the right to hate one another for it."

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

Hell, if we really want to play in the Oppression Olympics, let's talk about Native Americans, shall we?

So, for the last time, stop bringing up the "fact" that the LGBTQ community hasn't had it as hard as the African-American community. (since you love this face so much)

Oh man, the Abuse Excuse. Boring. I didn't know people still played that game.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

I don't see why you're not understanding. See below:


And I believe that PiKA or MysticCat said that you have absolutely no idea what hardships an individual has been through. How much actual hate and oppression have you experienced? This isn't the time that we talk about our ancestors who were chained up on the boat and our grandparents who faced the hoses in the South; this is about us, right now.

Hell, if we really want to play in the Oppression Olympics, let's talk about Native Americans, shall we?

So, for the last time, stop bringing up the "fact" that the LGBTQ community hasn't had it as hard as the African-American community. (since you love this face so much)


Anyway, the ultimate point of this conversation is that if you went to Chick-Fil-A for food, especially on Huckabee Appreciation Day, you are supporting homophobia, heterosexism, and heterocentrism. Congrats.

Saving you a Google trip:
Heterocentrism - the societal ideology that heterosexuality is normal, better, and expected.
Heterosexism - a system of oppression that assumes all people are heterosexual
Homophobia - the fear, hatred, or discomfort with individuals who do not identify as heterosexual

Can I co-sign here? I think you should leave it at this, anything more with her will be beating a dead homophobic horse.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

How much actual hate and oppression have you experienced? This isn't the time that we talk about our ancestors who were chained up on the boat and our grandparents who faced the hoses in the South; this is about us, right now.

Why? If it weren't for their ability to survive those hardships then, then we would not be here now.

That is why I take it so personally.

I take it personally because I had grandparents and my own parents who lived in a segregated Jim Crow South. Did I personally experience the degree of hardships they did, no. But I was definitely educated and understood what happened from their own personal experiences.

Hell, if we really want to play in the Oppression Olympics, let's talk about Native Americans, shall we?

We can. Because they have been truly oppressed. Its not about Oppression Olympics and who is going to win. Its about defining your own cause on your own terms, and not trying to piggy-back on someone else.

So, for the last time, stop bringing up the "fact" that the LGBTQ community hasn't had it as hard as the African-American community. (since you love this face so much)

I'll stop bringing it up when they stop using images of my heritage to push their agenda. Like I said, define your own agenda, use your own history in terms of the LGBTO community to help others understand why you are oppressed.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Why? If it weren't for their ability to survive those hardships then, then we would not be here now.

That is why I take it so personally.

I take it personally because I had grandparents and my own parents who lived in a segregated Jim Crow South. Did I personally experience the degree of hardships they did, no. But I was definitely educated and understood what happened from their own personal experiences.



We can. Because they have been truly oppressed. Its not about Oppression Olympics and who is going to win. Its about defining your own cause on your own terms, and not trying to piggy-back on someone else.



I'll stop bringing it up when they stop using images of my heritage to push their agenda. Like I said, define your own agenda, use your own history in terms of the LGBTO community to help others understand why you are oppressed.

What images or black civil rights piggy-backing do you keep babbling about? You do know there black and Latino gays, right? Are black gays supposed to have a separate but equal "agenda" than white gays?

I love how wanting equal rights is an "agenda" to you.

[SWTXBelle]

http://www.chick-fil-abowl.com/Givin...bleGiving.aspx

Chick-fil-a Bowl donations - HOW DARE THEY - giving to foster care, college and high school scholarships, Play It Smart, children's healthcare, the National Guard, hearing and sight restoration, the National Kidney Challenge, Schools of Niger and worst of all COLLEGE FOOTBALL. If only they spent their money in "more useful ways". They OBVIOUSLY MUST BE STOPPED.

Yes, I realize they support other causes which are controversial. I'm just tired of all the hyperbole - to hear many, ALL CFA does is support anti-same sex marriage.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

http://www.chick-fil-abowl.com/Givin...bleGiving.aspx

Chick-fil-a Bowl donations - HOW DARE THEY - giving to foster care, college and high school scholarships, Play It Smart, children's healthcare, the National Guard, hearing and sight restoration, the National Kidney Challenge, Schools of Niger and worst of all COLLEGE FOOTBALL. If only they spent their money in "more useful ways". They OBVIOUSLY MUST BE STOPPED.

Yes, I realize they support other causes which are controversial. I'm just tired of all the hyperbole - to hear many, ALL CFA does is support anti-same sex marriage.

Your point would be valid if the above causes didn't constitute a somewhat small percentage of CFA's charitable giving.

From reading that link and others, it's clear that while CFA does donate to sources which seem not to be linked to anti-gay causes, these constitute a very small percentage of its charitable giving. Schools of Niger and the Kidney Challenge only receive $10,000 each annually. On the other hand, FCA received $240,000 in a single year. FCA, which I didn't even realize until reading, focuses some of its efforts towards converting gays. It's also a huge supporter of Focus on the Family, which the SPLC deemed as a hate group.

Let's not act brand new here and pretend that CFA's efforts against gay marriage are only a small part of their charitable efforts or their culture. From looking at their charitable giving and their actions, it's a major part of their culture.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by agzg

So listen to this, you bigoted asshole. YOUR HATE FOR SEN WAS MADE APPARENT THE MOMENT YOU STEPPED ON CHICK-FIL-A'S PROPERTY IN SUPPORT OF THEIR BIGOTRY. You don't get to love him in spite of it. You don't get to love me in spite of my hardened heart - my heart is hardened against the injustice of jerks like you forcing your perverted view of Christianity on me and others.

You are the very definition of hypocrisy.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by Wildcat2016

Also I have NEVER heard a gay person compare their plight to the trail or tears or slavery. I have myself, however, compared this MOVEMENT towards equal rights for homosexuals to the women's rights or black rights movements because they they are similar in that, 20 years down the road, when gays are finally allowed to marry and have their peace, my kids will learn about this in history books and wonder why it all took so long.

Absolutely. And for what it's worth, in college I learned that a lot of things are "the legacy of slavery," if you will, and perhaps it's hard for some people to compare the various movements because gay equality, women's equality, etc, wasn't necessarily born out of the legacy of slavery as the African American civil rights movement was.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

http://www.chick-fil-abowl.com/Givin...bleGiving.aspx

Chick-fil-a Bowl donations - HOW DARE THEY - giving to foster care, college and high school scholarships, Play It Smart, children's healthcare, the National Guard, hearing and sight restoration, the National Kidney Challenge, Schools of Niger and worst of all COLLEGE FOOTBALL. If only they spent their money in "more useful ways". They OBVIOUSLY MUST BE STOPPED.

This is not about where CFA gives that isn't harmful. We all donate to places which aren't harmful.

If the neighborhood pimp gives silver dollars to kids at Christmas, he is still a pimp.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Your point would be valid if the above causes didn't constitute a somewhat small percentage of CFA's charitable giving.

From reading that link and others, it's clear that while CFA does donate to sources which seem not to be linked to anti-gay causes, these constitute a very small percentage of its charitable giving. Schools of Niger and the Kidney Challenge only receive $10,000 each annually. On the other hand, FCA received $240,000 in a single year. FCA, which I didn't even realize until reading, focuses some of its efforts towards converting gays. It's also a huge supporter of Focus on the Family, which the SPLC deemed as a hate group.

Let's not act brand new here and pretend that CFA's efforts against gay marriage are only a small part of their charitable efforts or their culture. From looking at their charitable giving and their actions, it's a major part of their culture.

That, too.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Let's not act brand new here and pretend that CFA's efforts against gay marriage are only a small part of their charitable efforts or their culture. From looking at their charitable giving and their actions, it's a major part of their culture.

Can you break this out for me?

Unless we basically say that any giving to a Christian organization or support for Christian values is assumed to be anti-gay, I'm not sure how you get there.

The figures I've seen say Winshape has about an 18 million dollar budget annually and that donations to outside suspect groups are around than five million since 2003.

And can you point me to what you read saying that FCA is anti-gay?