Gunman Opens Fire During "The Dark Knight Rises"

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DGTess

Do you really want to live in a world where you're not trusted to do anything, and are searched everywhere you go? I don't. I would MUCH rather face the possibility of a madman than to give up individual liberties.

I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but we already live in this world. Why do you think we can't take liquids through airport security, and have to remove our shoes? Why do you think there's heightened security in offices and government buildings? Why do we have to have our bags checked before entering a concert or sporting event? Because there are evil people in this world who have killed innocent people, and have inconvenienced the rest of us.

But I'd rather deal with a 15 minute inconvenience than end up dead. But maybe that's just me.

And what's the trade-off here? Wait 15 minutes to get into the theater.. Or wait 15 miniutes sitting in my seat. There's no real difference if you ask me.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

It's not that it's not possible that it could have helped. It course it might have. What I'm uncomfortable with is the bald assertions in the wake of an incident like this along the lines of "this shows why we need to be able to carry concealed weapon into places like movie theaters." I think that's a knee-jerk reaction that ignores the possibility of the law of unintended consequences and assumes only two possible outcomes -- that it would have helped or that it would not have made a difference -- and ignores the third possible outcome. That's the part of it I have a problem with.

Exaaaaactly.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by sigmagirl2000

Interesting to see how this translates to red and blue states. I also had to idea that Michigan was so populated..... (or if it isn't, there are just a lot of gun and motor vehicle deaths there).

And this doesn't surprise me, at all.

[AnotherKD]

Originally Posted by sigmagirl2000;

ETA: Since I'm a number/ math nerd, this was interesting to me. DC is high up there with the guns, as are the Virgin Islands (whoa!)

Yeah, DC has guns everywhere. And, even though it is technically legal to own one after the Heller ruling, it is logistically impossible due to restrictions that can't be met.

[dukedg]

Originally Posted by sigmagirl2000

Interesting chart:

ETA: Since I'm a number/ math nerd, this was interesting to me. DC is high up there with the guns, as are the Virgin Islands (whoa!)

Great chart -- thanks for sharing. I definitely find it more helpful to compare things on a per capita basis, it's more apples-to-apples for me.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but we already live in this world. Why do you think we can't take liquids through airport security, and have to remove our shoes? Why do you think there's heightened security in offices and government buildings? Why do we have to have our bags checked before entering a concert or sporting event? Because there are evil people in this world who have killed innocent people, and have inconvenienced the rest of us.

But I'd rather deal with a 15 minute inconvenience than end up dead. But maybe that's just me.

And what's the trade-off here? Wait 15 minutes to get into the theater.. Or wait 15 miniutes sitting in my seat. There's no real difference if you ask me.

Exaaaaactly.

I've quit flying.

I recently canceled plans to go to a Nationals baseball game when I learned I'd be searched like a common criminal.

I'm perfectly happy staying away from places where I'm presumed guilty. But maybe that's just me.

It just amuses me that after an atrocious crime, the rules and regulations change to punish those who didn't do it.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I've quit flying.

I recently canceled plans to go to a Nationals baseball game when I learned I'd be searched like a common criminal.

I'm perfectly happy staying away from places where I'm presumed guilty. But maybe that's just me.

Wow - I find it quite sad that you'd rather avoid doing things you (used to) like simply because of added security measures.

Originally Posted by DGTess

It just amuses me that after an atrocious crime, the rules and regulations change to punish those who didn't do it.

Except that the rules and regulations aren't put in place to punish people - they're put in place to protect people.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I'm perfectly happy staying away from places where I'm presumed guilty. But maybe that's just me.

It just amuses me that after an atrocious crime, the rules and regulations change to punish those who didn't do it.

Inconvenienced? Absolutely

Presumed guilty? Of course not. If you were presumed guilty you wouldn't be asked to go through security, you'd simply be detained and locked up.

Punished? Only by yourself, it seems to me.

[SWTXBelle]

RE: Auto/gun deaths - does any place break it down per capita? That would be a better way to evaluate the data than just the raw numbers. I'd also be interested in knowing the number of registered vehicles vs. the number of guns before I decided how important/unimportant the information is.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I've quit flying.

I recently canceled plans to go to a Nationals baseball game when I learned I'd be searched like a common criminal.

I'm perfectly happy staying away from places where I'm presumed guilty. But maybe that's just me.

It just amuses me that after an atrocious crime, the rules and regulations change to punish those who didn't do it.

You quit flying because you have to take off your shoes and can only buy a bottle of water after going through security?

You didn't go to a baseball game because when walking in, someone might ask you to open your purse so they could take a glance inside?

It amuses you that rules/processes/procedures are changed because people die? Using this logic, most laws involving cars could be thrown out the window... Not wearing a seatbelt? Just be careful! Driving 30mph over the speed limit? Have fun! You're driving drunk? Carry on!

And you find this to be punishment? Yea, you're right... If 9/11 taught us anything, it's that terrorists should be allowed on planes armed to the teeth. Let's forget the metal detectors altogether!

Hell, why even give the TSA agent my ID? God forbid I'd have to open my wallet and pull it aaaaall the way out for them to look at for 10 seconds.

[BAckbOwlsgIrl]

I just watched 9news describing each of the victims.

It sucks. It sucks really bad.

I am still trying see if any of them were our brothers or sisters.

We lost too many wonderful people.

Last night I was out. We all had a moment of silence.

Colorado is full of beauty. With that, so many people come here. We have one of the most educated populations in the country. Even crazy people like beauty. The mountains provide a place for all to get away.

The president will be here tomorrow.
The city is slowly starting to heal. We are going to get through this.

It sucks. It sucks really bad.

[tcsparky]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

You quit flying because you have to take off your shoes and can only buy a bottle of water after going through security?

You didn't go to a baseball game because when walking in, someone might ask you to open your purse so they could take a glance inside?

It amuses you that rules/processes/procedures are changed because people die? Using this logic, most laws involving cars could be thrown out the window... Not wearing a seatbelt? Just be careful! Driving 30mph over the speed limit? Have fun! You're driving drunk? Carry on!

And you find this to be punishment? Yea, you're right... If 9/11 taught us anything, it's that terrorists should be allowed on planes armed to the teeth. Let's forget the metal detectors altogether!

Hell, why even give the TSA agent my ID? God forbid I'd have to open my wallet and pull it aaaaall the way out for them to look at for 10 seconds.

Holy Overraction! Calm down a bit. The sarcasm fallback might have sounded OK in your head, but it came across as bitter. No one said anything about allowing "armed to the teeth terrorists" on planes. No one said anything about scrapping the metal detectors, or not pulling out the ID for ten whole seconds. What a lot of people have problems with is TSA sticking their fingers in female children's vaginas, forcing nursing mothers to drink their own breast milk and painfully squeezing men's privates to prove they aren't terrorists. And let's not forget about the body scanner naked pictures that were saved, passed around and laughed at by TSA agents. These are the things that make people get fed up with flying.

No one on here said anything about allowing drunk driving, speeding or anything else. Except for you, as an overreaction to someone who has a problem with extreme security measures that are leveled against the entire public as a result of the actions of 12 people. So chill and allow discourse.

[excelblue]

Going thru excessive security to do the things you like is like getting hazed to join a GLO: shouldn't be happening and ruins the experience.

Because of airport security, I'd rather spend several days in a car/bus/train instead of just a few hours flying.

Because of the ridiculous searches, I find it less enjoyable to watch a live baseball game at a stadium than on a large screen TV somewhere else.

It's hard to be happy when your freedoms are violated excessively.

[PeppyGPhiB]

I have my CPL, and from what info. has been made public, I doubt I would have drawn my weapon and fired in this situation. That is, if I was carrying at the time. Dark theatre, assailant dressed in black and SWAT gear, hundreds of people running through the rows and aisles, and tear gas that made it even harder to see and breathe. And my Ruger would have been no match for an AR-15 with expanded capacity magazine. The risk would have been too great that I may hit an innocent person running for their life, and then I would be on trial for homicide.

Someone mentioned that a flashlight could have blinded him. Maybe, but the thing is, with an AR-15 he didn't even need to see...he just sprayed the room with bullets.

I'm with the poster (I think it was SydneyK) who speculated that there probably was someone in the theatre who was packing. But if so, I don't blame them for not drawing on this guy. Not only was it likely very difficult to draw a weapon in that situation (realizing what was going on, from a sitting position, hitting the deck or running for the exit), but it carried a high likelihood of causing collateral damage (and drawing the gunman's attention in a negative way).

[PeppyGPhiB]

Oh, and the banning of guns will never happen in this country. For several reasons, but one is that I believe it would basically plunge our country into civil war. Yes, really. Martial Law would need to be declared, and by the time the military was done forcefully disarming the American public, the country would be devastated.

[ADqtPiMel]

For what it's worth, I have Nationals season tickets and the only searching they do is a cursory look inside any bag. If you're not carrying a bag, there's no search at all.