Questions about GPA Requirements and PNMs

[Titchou]

Well, we should not be giving them that impression, Old Row. The impression is the problem - not the reality. You know, i went thru in 1963 - back when dinosaurs roamed the earth - but I never thought it was all about my choice. I knew I had to be qualified to get an invite and then I had to choose carefully which ones I accepted (that was how it was done before RFM). No one ever gave me the idea I was in total control. And yes, I'm from the South but no woman in my family had ever been Greek, I went to HS out state to a boarding school where none of my classmates knew what a sorority was. The problem today is the heli parents - they should be explaining life and rejection, etc to their children and they are not. Dr Phil - I'm right there with, baby!

[DGTess]

It's not "mutual" as long as a woman cannot drop a chapter during the process.

I'm not arguing for that -- way too often the one she dropped would have been the best fit for her. Still, choices have consequences.

So Rachel Rushee goes to 16 houses on day one, and gets invited back to 8. But two of those who invited her back were those she didn't want to return to, and under many (most?) Panhel rules she gives up all choice - dropped from rush - if she doesn't go back to those she didn't want.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DGTess

It's not "mutual" as long as a woman cannot drop a chapter during the process.

I'm not arguing for that -- way too often the one she dropped would have been the best fit for her. Still, choices have consequences.

So Rachel Rushee goes to 16 houses on day one, and gets invited back to 8. But two of those who invited her back were those she didn't want to return to, and under many (most?) Panhel rules she gives up all choice - dropped from rush - if she doesn't go back to those she didn't want.

Right, but if a chapter ends up with none of the women they wanted, it's not mutual for them, either.

[wcjane]

I'm learning as I navigate through this forum. Who knew there were so many ins and outs?

In the recruitment booklet of the school I'm attending (midwest), "mutual selection" is mentioned frequently. I think it's supposed to be reassuring but.... I realize I'm trying to be accepted into their group, they're not necessarily trying to be accepted into my group of Jane.

One of the first questions I asked myself was "what if nobody wants me?". I realize that I am dependent on sororities wanting me back. If they don't choose me then it doesn't matter how much I want them. Stark but true.

[Titchou]

DGTess, she can drop one at the very end - after pref. The only negative impact is if that is a suicide then she won't be eligible for any but the one group she lists. And since that's the only one she wants at that point, it doesn't matter. And all pur choices in life have consequences. Time they realized that.

And wcjane, you are being very realistic and it will serve you well! In recruitment and in life.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Titchou

From 33Girl, KSUViolet and others who don't believe it is a "mutual selection" process....

Whoooa, what??? You misunderstood me - or else I misunderstood you. You seemed to be saying that is IS skewed in favor of the sororities.

Originally Posted by Titchou

It is mutual - but we're the ones having the parties...so we get to say who's invited.

And believe me, by NO means do I consider that a bad thing. Alpha Chapter and Beta Chapter of XYZ may be miles apart in what they consider an "ideal sister" and how the interpret the membership standards laid out for them, but there is no question whatsoever it is THEIR decision.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DGTess

It's not "mutual" as long as a woman cannot drop a chapter during the process.

I'm not arguing for that -- way too often the one she dropped would have been the best fit for her. Still, choices have consequences.

So Rachel Rushee goes to 16 houses on day one, and gets invited back to 8. But two of those who invited her back were those she didn't want to return to, and under many (most?) Panhel rules she gives up all choice - dropped from rush - if she doesn't go back to those she didn't want.

Well guess what, sometimes the chapters are forced (by advisors, HQs, or worst, by Greek life offices) to invite back women they really don't want to have there because their rush retention rates or numbers are low. Except for the last case, that's not Panhel's fault.

Not only that, Rachel needs to get her ish together and realize there IS a polite way of conveying to DEF and GHI that she really doesn't want to be there. The problem is, it may be out of the members' hands to do her that courtesy and release her. They can't make the other chapters like her more and invite her to their parties, which I'm sure many DEFs and GHIs would love to be able to do. Just because your numbers are low doesn't mean you are so dense as to not know when someone is unhappy or uncomfortable.

If you realize the one she's dumping may be a better fit for her, I don't understand how you can still rail against a woman being "forced" to go to parties during formal rush.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Ask the 1990s. It's their fault. LOL.

I think it's a misguided attempt by women who have been out of college for FAR too long to attract different kinds of women than the ones who have traditionally been members and stop their orgs being tagged as the "snobby old-girl network." Not that attracting different kinds of women is misguided at all, but making them think it's going to be easy peasy lemon squeezy is..."it" being rush, or sorority membership/Greek life itself.

Sorry but this indicated to me that you don't like the term "mutual selection" nor RFM...

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Titchou

Sorry but this indicated to me that you don't like the term "mutual selection" nor RFM...

No, I like RFM very much. Sororities who invite back women they have no intention of pledging just to say WE GOT MORE FULL PARTIES THAN ANYONE ELSE are poopyheads.

As to "mutual selection," while it is true to a point, in the same way as suicide vs. intentional single preference and rush vs. recruitment, it pretties up what is happening a little too much. Justgowithit summed it up perfectly:

Originally Posted by justgo_withit

I think the problem is that often PNMs get the impression that mutual selection = equal selection

That Seventeen article on rush from eons ago put it in a better way - i.e. letting you know that you are checking the groups out, but somehow making it clear that you were not in charge, but not making it mean. That's the kind of thing that you can't do in a "mutual selection" sound bite.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If you realize the one she's dumping may be a better fit for her, I don't understand how you can still rail against a woman being "forced" to go to parties during formal rush.

No one's "railing." I simply stated the process is not mutual if a chapter can drop a rushee but a rushee cannot drop a chapter.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by DGTess

No one's "railing." I simply stated the process is not mutual if a chapter can drop a rushee but a rushee cannot drop a chapter.

Yes it is...she can drop them at the end. Her only possible sanction would be not being a QA since she didn't maximize her options. And she always has the right to reject any bid offered to her. So, in the final analysis, it's her choice to make. It seems you think everyone ought to have the opportunity to pledge any group. That's not realistic as one side has to initiate the invitations. And in this case, it's the GLO...

[Greek_or_Geek?]

Originally Posted by Titchou

Yes it is...she can drop them at the end. Her only possible sanction would be not being a QA since she didn't maximize her options. And she always has the right to reject any bid offered to her. So, in the final analysis, it's her choice to make. It seems you think everyone ought to have the opportunity to pledge any group. That's not realistic as one side has to initiate the invitations. And in this case, it's the GLO...

Panhellenics go to great lengths to dissuade PNMs from suiciding though. Whether it be the gentle implication that ranking all her choices increases her chances of getting her favorites to the all out "you must list all of them or the computer will drop you and you will not get a bid at all." It's sort of the equivalent of weaker chapters being forced to invite back PNMs they don't want for the sake of numbers.

[WCsweet<3]

Question about quota: From what I understand, quota is based on the number of women who attend preference/pref form. What about women who SIP?

That isn't very clear so here is an example.

Say there are four chapters; A, B, C, W. There are 100 PNMs who sign pref forms. Theoretically, quota would be 25 per chapter right?

If so (if not ignore this portion), what happens if 80-90 PNMs sign for either, A and B, B and C, A and C or SIP. What if only 10-20 PNMs have W on their pref form?

Sorry if this is rather simple. I was only on the chapter side of recruitment once and was then a rho gamma where it wasn't explained.

[DubaiSis]

If you're talking about quota within RFM, it is not exactly the number of rushees at preference divided by number of chapters. As I understand it, if that number is 40, they will start with that number and then see how many girls find a home if they go with 39, 38, 41, 42, etc. A quota of 38 can actually place more girls in some scenarios. Thankfully the computer can do all this in a flash so a bunch of old ladies don't have to try to figure it out after hours of manual bid matching.

[Titchou]

Greek_or_Geek: Just because some PH's don't explain things properly or coerce PNMs to do things they don't want, the bottom line is still that the choice is the PNM's. How people abuse and misuse the system is another topic altogether.

And yes, DubaiSis, that's how it works with RFM.