The Murder of Trayvon Martin

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Is your battle with the stereotype why you got mad at me years ago for singing Buffalo soldier, dredloc Rasta to you? LOL. That was funny as hell.

LMAOOOOO!!!!!! Throwback!

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

LMAOOOOO!!!!!! Throwback!

LOL. It was a perplexing back and forth.

I just finished watching Joe Oliver on Piers Morgan. I respect everyone's insight and respect the desire of those who love Zimmerman to speak out. However, it is no coincidence that Zimmerman's bestfriend who is appearing on all of these shows is a Black man. "Some of my bestfriends are Black."

Oliver discussed a number of things including how Zimmerman is not white as the news reported; that Zimmerman now has PTSD; and that Trayvon Martin was bigger than Zimmerman. I respect hearing every side of the story. I also look forward to this getting out of the court of public opinion and getting to an actual court.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I have a fear of Black men in dark streets PERIOD so I will be terrified of you even with the business suit. That business suit does not keep you from whooping my ass. In fact, where in the hell did you get your business suit, from a work release program or did you steal it from a white man?

Argggghhhh...I'm calling the po-po just in case!!!

I. Hate. You.

Oh and I agree with k_s and agzg simultaneously. In order to challenge the (mis)perceptions of others, you first have to acknowledge the fact that they are, in fact, present. You can't really get mad that they are there in the sense that it's a surprise to you. You can, however, be indignant and fight the stereotype. There is a time and place to do this of course. It is reasonable that dressing bummy to a sorority rush to "prove I'm still a worthy applicant even without the suit" will get you cut from the lot. It is not reasonable to assume that wearing a hoodie on the street "even though I'm not a thug" will get you shot. No one has the right to assume you are a thug or dangerous and, though it should be expected people will see that if you superficially "fit the bill," you should not have to deal with their prejudices and your safety certainly shouldn't be in jeopardy over it. I agree with both of you and think you are essentially saying the same thing on some level.

[DrPhil]

And if people insist on overstating this obvious point, we need to keep it honest. This is not a discussion of everyone dressing in the manner in which they want to be received. This is about minority groups dressing in the manner in which they want to be received even if that requires going above and beyond the call of duty (it typically does).

That is not a new concept. But turning this issue into a discussion of Black male attire is a delightful distraction that serves to go beyond precipitation and into victim blame. "If only he had not worn that" is based on a probably false assumption that Martin would not have been pursued had he not worn a hoodie. This story would have probably ended the same had he had an umbrella in the rain or without anything covering his head.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

That is not a new concept. But turning this issue into a discussion of Black male attire is a delightful distraction that serves to go beyond precipitation and into victim blame.

No, it doesn't. It means that there are multiple aspects to this issue and the discussion is allowed to have multiple layers. Speaking of attire, stereotypes, and perceptions is not a distraction from the issue (at least in this thread) but rather a seperate conversation alongside the main issue (as most threadjacks are) and, as has been stated way more times than necessary, discussing the hows and whys of stereotyping in no way means that anyone here is blaming the victim.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

No, it doesn't. It means that there are multiple aspects to this issue and the discussion is allowed to have multiple layers. Speaking of attire, stereotypes, and perceptions is not a distraction from the issue (at least in this thread) but rather a seperate conversation alongside the main issue (as most threadjacks are) and, as has been stated way more times than necessary, discussing the hows and whys of stereotyping in no way means that anyone here is blaming the victim.

As I have said before, overstating this obvious point has gotten away from the main point. The separate conversation has become the main conversation. In overstating the correlates to the issue, people have become perplexed as to whom they want to blame (even if Zimmerman is not brought up on charges).

Just as if this was a GC discussion of an alleged rape victim and perpetrator. A brief mention of what the victim was wearing would suffice--and even that would get an eyebrow raise from those who believe rape victims are never victim precipitators. If there were two GC pages on what the alleged rape victim was wearing or doing, it would be interpreted as forcing the alleged victim to share the blame with the perpetrator. If only that rape victim had not worn that sexy outfit and had that "come hither...my sex is awesome" look on her or his face. For generations courts have torn (alleged) rape victims apart by talking about their past (i.e., discussing what Trayvon Martin has been doing at school) and what the alleged rape victims were doing or wearing at the time that encouraged the alleged attack (i.e., discussing what Trayvon Martin was wearing when walking around a neighborhood in the rain). If that is not acceptable as far as people are concerned, neither is where this discussion of Trayvon Martin has gone.

I surely hope that the outfit I wear to the gym and to the grocery store afterwards does not confuse people and invite something. I typically look younger than my age and not as educated and occupationally attained as I am---I may look like a thug or even a sex kitten with an afro or a twist-set. To avoid that, I will print out a handout of my resume` and introduce myself as "Dr." to everyone in my nearest vicinity--just in case!!! This will be fun!!!

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

As I have said before, ovestating this obvious point has gotten away from the main point. The separate conversation has become the main conversation. In overstating the correlates to the issue, people have become perplexed as to whom they want to blame (even if Zimmerman is not brought up on charges).

Just as if this was a GC discussion of an alleged rape victim and perpetrator. A brief mention of what the victim was wearing would suffice--and even that would get an eyebrow raise from those who believe rape victims are never victim precipitators. If there were two GC pages on what the alleged rape victim was wearing or doing, it would be interpreted as forcing the alleged victim to share the blame with the perpetrator. If only that rape victim had not worn that sexy outfit and had that "come hither...my sex is awesome" look on her or his face. For generations courts have torn (alleged) rape victims apart by talking about their past (i.e., discussing what Trayvon Martin has been doing at school) and what the alleged rape victims were doing or wearing at the time that encouraged the alleged attack (i.e., discussing what Trayvon Martin was wearing when walking around a neighborhood in the rain). If that is not acceptable as far as people are concerned, neither is where this discussion of Trayvon Martin has gone.

I surely hope that the outfit I wear to the gym and to the grocery store afterwards does not confuse people and invite something. I typically look younger than my age and not as educated and occupationally attained as I am---I may look like a thug or even a sex kitten with an afro or a twist-set. To avoid that, I will print out a handout of my resume` and introduce myself as "Dr." to everyone in my nearest vicinity--just in case!!! This will be fun!!!

Amen. I also firmly believe that the hoodie had nothing to do with it. George Zimmerman would have found ANY black male, regardless of age or clothing, walking through his neighborhood suspicious. He didn't know him so OBVIOUSLY Martin was up to no good. The hoodie IS a distraction and an excuse. Hell, if I had on a hoodie and it was raining outside, you bet I'd pull that hood over my head. There is something wrong with a person's ability to reason if THAT is suspicious. PERIOD.

Now, I will agree that people discriminate based on many things, but are you really going to live your life trying to avoid that? As someone pointed out Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr were both shot and killed, but they were wearing suits. You can't win at this game.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

I. Hate. You.

Oh and I agree with k_s and agzg simultaneously. In order to challenge the (mis)perceptions of others, you first have to acknowledge the fact that they are, in fact, present. You can't really get mad that they are there in the sense that it's a surprise to you. You can, however, be indignant and fight the stereotype. There is a time and place to do this of course. It is reasonable that dressing bummy to a sorority rush to "prove I'm still a worthy applicant even without the suit" will get you cut from the lot. It is not reasonable to assume that wearing a hoodie on the street "even though I'm not a thug" will get you shot. No one has the right to assume you are a thug or dangerous and, though it should be expected people will see that if you superficially "fit the bill," you should not have to deal with their prejudices and your safety certainly shouldn't be in jeopardy over it. I agree with both of you and think you are essentially saying the same thing on some level.

None of us as the right to assume, but, we all in our own ways do it.