Domestic Violence

[DrPhil]

Man-on-woman violence tends to be perceived differently than woman-on-man, man-on-man, and woman-on-woman violence. If a GC man shared the lesson that he and his wife learned after a violent altercation in which he punched her, he was arrested, and his wife felt bad seeing him in court--that would receive a different response from GCers. If a GC man said everything that IrishLake said but reversed the genders, it would receive a different response from GCers.

I appreciate IrishLake's honesty so my posts are not about her. It is simply the case that the responses to her post are extremely common. It is extremely common for people to respond to women in a manner that they tend not to respond to men. That includes the fact that women are more likely to share their experiences as the abusee or the abuser than men are. Men would not share if they were abused and they would not share if they abused someone else (even if they learned a huge lesson from it and it strengthened the relationship).

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by Tulip86

IrishLake, thank you so much for sharing that.

I second this. I don't think you've "brought shame" on anyone. Despite the negativity of the experience, it was told openly and honestly for others to learn from and that is the commendable part.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

VandalSquirrel, regardless of whatever, I doubt that a GC man who shared what IrishLake shared would receive the response that she has received. That gendered response to intimate partner violence is why I created this thread.

While this may be true, I think the reasons behind the punch were what elicited seemingly positive responses. While no one has flat out said they condone hitting another person regardless of the reason, everyone can understand and empathize with a woman who was faced with a man about to leave with her child. This is also a "gendered response" because we are empathizing with the "mama bear" reaction and assuming the father would not protect his child just as fiercely in the same situation. However, I would like to think that, if DS told a story where a woman was attempting to take his child away and he physically stopped her, he may not get "hugs and love" (A GC man would likely get a fist bump gif before getting hugs and love no matter the topic) but usernames would not immediately criminalize him either.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

This is also a "gendered response" because we are empathizing with the "mama bear" reaction and assuming the father would not protect his child just as fiercely in the same situation.

Exactly.

I would add "should not protect" to the "would not protect."

Originally Posted by christiangirl

However, I would like to think that, if...told a story where a woman was attempting to take his child away and he physically stopped her, he may not get "hugs and love" (A GC man would likely get a fist bump gif before getting hugs and love no matter the topic) but usernames would not immediately criminalize him either.

I don't think we disagree on the larger point that I am making. I will just add:

A GC man who hit the mother of his child to keep her from leaving with the child (rhetorical question: How often do women threaten to leave, or actually leave, with the children?) would probably be told in a loving/brofist/"we aren't judging you and thanks for your honesty" way that he should have just called the police.

No one in this thread justified (we empathize and sympathize) what happened with IrishLake and IrishLake is thankful that it was a learning experience on both sides. Yet and still, remember what people said earlier in this thread about the different ways that abuse manifests and how abuse starts off small and initially seems explanable and understandable, etc.? The different ways that abuse manifests tends to be applied to man-on-woman abuse whereas woman-on-man abuse is often seen as "it must have happened for a GOOD reason...it won't happen again because the initial problem has been solved."

As evidenced by the beginning of your post:

Originally Posted by christiangirl

While this may be true, I think the reasons behind the punch were what elicited seemingly positive responses. While no one has flat out said they condone hitting another person regardless of the reason, everyone can understand and empathize with a woman who was faced with a man about to leave with her child.This is also a "gendered response" because we are empathizing with the "mama bear" reaction and assuming the father would not protect his child just as fiercely in the same situation

[Cen1aur 1963]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Man-on-woman violence tends to be perceived differently than woman-on-man, man-on-man, and woman-on-woman violence. If a GC man shared the lesson that he and his wife learned after a violent altercation in which he punched her, he was arrested, and his wife felt bad seeing him in court--that would receive a different response from GCers. If a GC man said everything that IrishLake said but reversed the genders, it would receive a different response from GCers.

I appreciate IrishLake's honesty so my posts are not about her. It is simply the case that the responses to her post are extremely common. It is extremely common for people to respond to women in a manner that they tend not to respond to men. That includes the fact that women are more likely to share their experiences as the abusee or the abuser than men are. Men would not share if they were abused and they would not share if they abused someone else (even if they learned a huge lesson from it and it strengthened the relationship).

I agree with all of this. I read this entire thread before work this morning, but I didn't have time to respond. That's the bad thing about this board, you almost have to keep checking it for good chatting sessions, otherwise you miss out LOL. This is one that I missed. Dr. Phil, I feel you on this. I've never been abused in a relationship and I've never hit a woman, but I have seen my pops beat on my mom several times. I was just a kid then, and I wasn't much older than 7 or 8 when they finally divorced. It was one of those things that she eventually got tired of. I think sometimes we live in a bad situation for so long that it becomes normal when in reality it isn't. When you mentioned the chuckling if it was a female beating on a dude, I'll admit, I'd probably laugh at that too. It's almost a normal response from a lot of dudes, but at the same time a wrong response. But, yeah, I agree with this all the way.

[I2K Beta Mu]

Originally Posted by Cen1aur 1963

I agree with all of this. I read this entire thread before work this morning, but I didn't have time to respond. That's the bad thing about this board, you almost have to keep checking it for good chatting sessions, otherwise you miss out LOL. This is one that I missed. Dr. Phil, I feel you on this. I've never been abused in a relationship and I've never hit a woman, but I have seen my pops beat on my mom several times. I was just a kid then, and I wasn't much older than 7 or 8 when they finally divorced. It was one of those things that she eventually got tired of. I think sometimes we live in a bad situation for so long that it becomes normal when in reality it isn't. When you mentioned the chuckling if it was a female beating on a dude, I'll admit, I'd probably laugh at that too. It's almost a normal response from a lot of dudes, but at the same time a wrong response. But, yeah, I agree with this all the way.

I'm going to quote my old post. There are different kinds of domestic violence, it doesn't all center around physical and verbal. I'm just talking based on shit I saw and lived....physical abuse. I remember seeing the shit when I was four, my pops left shortly after that. I could have been older, but I can't remember exactly. I just know I was young as hell, and I remember seeing dude fuck up my mom on occasion. I'm sure dude said some verbal shit, but the physical part of it stood out too much for me to even remember wtf the dude said to her in the process. If somebody is getting their ass beat, that's one thing, but if they stay, that's their decision. I know it's not easy to just pack up and bounce for some. Some it is, but for others it isn't. Either way, if the person decides they want to stay or go for whatever reason, who made that choice for them? With my mom, I asked her why didn't she leave dude, and she told me that we were involved and it's different when you have kids involved. I told her that should have been the very reason for her to leave. My girl for example, who was in an abusive relationship a few years before she met me. She's got some deep seeded issues with it. She fought the dude back, and bounced. Never looking back. It depends on the situation, and the person, but she made the decision to leave. Some folks would bounce and not fuck around with an abusive partner, some wouldn't. If you stay, dude or female didn't make you stay.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by I2K Beta Mu

If somebody is getting their ass beat, that's one thing, but if they stay, that's their decision.

Unfortunately, everything we know about psychology says this isn't really true. After all, nobody enjoys getting their ass beat, right?

The victim may fear for his/her life if they leave (believing the abuser will track him/her down and commit literal murder), or may lack the emotional stability or tools to fight back (in a figurative sense), or may rely upon the abuser for livelihood/sustenance, or etc.

Abusive relationships don't just happen - it's a process that ends with the victim in a more or less powerless (or severely underpowered) situation. Because that imbalance is often severe, the victim can't make a decision - often they lack the ability to make a decision. The tools simply don't exist - it would be like me telling you to make a decision to build the tallest building in the state of Oregon.

That's also why it's less than helpful for others to say "I would never find/allow myself in that situation" - it's an implicit blaming of the victim, as if the victim were weak or otherwise flawed simply for being the victim. It reinforces existing anti-female notions pervasive in society - why did she wear that skirt? Why did she talk back? Why didn't she walk out that door?

It's nothing more than a repackaged version of slut shaming, repurposed for grown-ups but no more valid.

[I2K Beta Mu]

Doc -I'm responding to KSigRC first.

[I2K Beta Mu]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Unfortunately, everything we know about psychology says this isn't really true. After all, nobody enjoys getting their ass beat, right?

The victim may fear for his/her life if they leave (believing the abuser will track him/her down and commit literal murder), or may lack the emotional stability or tools to fight back (in a figurative sense), or may rely upon the abuser for livelihood/sustenance, or etc.

Abusive relationships don't just happen - it's a process that ends with the victim in a more or less powerless (or severely underpowered) situation. Because that imbalance is often severe, the victim can't make a decision - often they lack the ability to make a decision. The tools simply don't exist - it would be like me telling you to make a decision to build the tallest building in the state of Oregon.

That's also why it's less than helpful for others to say "I would never find/allow myself in that situation" - it's an implicit blaming of the victim, as if the victim were weak or otherwise flawed simply for being the victim. It reinforces existing anti-female notions pervasive in society - why did she wear that skirt? Why did she talk back? Why didn't she walk out that door?

It's nothing more than a repackaged version of slut shaming, repurposed for grown-ups but no more valid.

Nobody should enjoy an ass kicking, but their are some folks where that's all they know. I'm talking about folks who know that shit is foul as hell. I grew up in it, and to me it was like coming home from school seeing and dealing with the same shit. Same shit different day, same dumbass mofo (my pops). I didn't like it, and sicne my mom wouldn't change it, I knew I had to. I'm not disagreeing with 100% of what you said, I feel you with most of it. But there are some folks who would bounce, and some folks who wouldn't. I feel you on what you said about the person's emotions as far as not being able to make a decision or let alone, a wise one. That's why I was saying it depends on what kind of abuse it is, situation (kids, money, etc.) and the individual person.

I wouldn't compare it to "slut bashing" just because a female decides to wear a short skirt or tight ass pants. She can wear what she wants to wear. Folks can't make her wear what they think it appropriate, just like somebody who is being abusive and whoopin her ass can't make her stay. She decides that. Folks want to know "why" about a lot of shit. Folks make decisions whether they're smart decisions or fucked up decisions that might make sense to them, but not somebody else. The questions is still going to be asked. We all do that shit. Some folks ask the question of why somebody did what they did, and then wouldn't follow what they say they would do in any given situation. Then you have those folks who would do exactly what they said they would do. I've seen it. If it was a female fearing for her life, either way, staying isn't going to make things any better. With the emotional shit, yeah, some folks are mentally unstable, so I understand that. But for the folks who are mentally aware enough to bounce don't have anybody to blame if they've made the choice to stay in it.