What teachers really want to tell parents.

[BetteDavisEyes]

Originally Posted by AlwaysSAI

There is very little personal accountability going on. In my mind, if you don't do the assignments you get zeros and your grade will go down. Natural consequence. Next time, you'll do your assignments. That is not seen as a valid argument for teachers. It will automatically (and has, even in my short career) become my fault that Little Suzie has 8 zeros. I have resorted to providing time for Little Suzie (and everyone else) to complete her assignments even if they were in school that day, but opted not to complete them the first time. And, I do this all for CYA, so that if mom is mad at me that Little Suzie failed, I can say: "I devoted x day and b day to make-up work entirely and she chose again not to complete it." (And, this is all backed up by the assignment schedule that is updated on my website daily.)

Something I've encountered this school year is parents furious because their little precious snowflake lost recess and/or classroom privileges due to not doing any work in the classroom. My kids know that failure to complete assignements in a timely manner results in them losing their Fun Friday activities. Some parents were demanding that I let their kids have their Fun Friday and they will do the work at home. Ummm...no. I told them in no uncertain terms that since it was CLASSWORK, it had to be completed in the classroom and I was NOT going to change my expectations for anyone.

Needless to say, I have some parents who dislike me intensely but frankly, I don't give a shit.

[KSUViolet06]

As most of you know, I work in a school and am currently studying to become a teacher.

My classmates are 90% teachers.

Their parent stories floor me. For example:

Teacher is working on rainforest unit in 4th grade. Student's big project = a model of the rainforest. There was also a trip to the local Zoo to see the rainforest exhibit. The catch = you had to do your project in order to participate in the zoo trip. Teacher even gave them an extra WEEK between the due date and the zoo trip to do it (like a "last chance to do it or no zoo" week.) Two kids never did theirs. So they were told no zoo trip. Of course they went home crying. Instead of saying "well hun, if you wanted to go on the zoo trip, you should have done the assignment", parents go to the principal and insist that their child be allowed to go. Principal said no. Parents complain to Superintendent, kids get to go. Boo.

[Cen1aur 1963]

I'm no teacher, but I do think teachers are overworked and underpaid.

[ASUADPi]

I'm lucky working with the DOD as I am making 14,000 more than I made in AZ. That being said, not everyone is lucky enough to work with the DOD. Out of all the teachers out there, my guess is that only like 5% of the teachers are DOD teachers. We are such a small percentage.
My pay was horrible in AZ. I lived at home for a few years, as a certified-paid-full time teacher, because my pay wasn't the best and then I had bills to pay. I couldn't afford to get an apartment. When I finally was able to buy a home, I had to have a roommate (because I switched districts and took a pay cut).
Prior to getting the job with the DOD I had given up on teaching in AZ all together. The state had cut funding and about 3000 teachers were unemployed. My problem was I was applying for jobs with all those recent grads. I was (at the time) a MA +30 with 5 years experience. A district would have had to pay me about 10-12K more than a BA with no experience. I was more expensive to hire. I put in over a dozen applications and I got not one interview. When districts are looking at the bottom line, they are going to go for cheap, not experience.

As for now, there is no way I could afford to teach in NC. If I went to the local school district I would take almost a 20K pay cut (the actual amount was 19,560). That is MASSIVE. Heck compared to what I was making in AZ, it would be a little over 5k pay cut. There would be no way I could survive. I have heard that most teachers in my local district, if they aren't married, they live at home or have roommates.

I don't know of a calculation that could show what teachers do to what they should make, but the reality is most teachers stay after their required duty day, they take work home with them, they buy supplies out of their own pockets. In my years as a teacher I have probably spent over 5k of my own money for my classroom.

Teachers shouldn't be working poor, and that is essentially what they are. Teachers should be valued.

But as someone mentioned earlier, until society changes their views on education (which I think would be a great start if the President and congress began changing their views on education), teachers are never truly going to get the respect (including financial) they deserve.

What I do find ironic is that Americans like to think that we are the "best" when it comes to our students coming out of school. That we are so damn smart. Compared to other countries, we are far from it. Japan, Germany, England have 10 times better educational systems than we do. Plus they actually value their teachers. I did a project on the educational system of Germany, teachers are considered high government employees and make and get what they deserve.

Our mentality needs to change.

With that, I have already created the next reality show. Instead of wife swap, teacher swap. Get a 6 or 7 figure CEO (who they always tend to have a lot to say about education but have never set foot in a classroom) switch lives with a teacher. One week in our jobs, their attitudes would change. Now, which network to propose that too? . Fox, CBS, ABC, NBC, etc...

[AlwaysSAI]

Originally Posted by 33girl

In the small town I grew up in, the people in the big houses on what we called Snob Hill are, increasingly, teachers. It's kind of hard to get people to feel sorry for them having to pay union dues and their own health insurance when most of them are living better than 90% of the people in town.

However, that doesn't mean that I think they should cut the funding to the SCHOOL. Funding for education and teachers' salaries are two different things. I'll gladly pay anytime for more teachers to keep the class sizes smaller, updated textbooks, etc. I won't gladly pay, however, so the current tenured teachers are making almost 6 figures a year. I believe most people agree.

As I stated, I am nowhere close to six figures--very, very far from it. And, I've never gotten a raise as an educator. I scrape the bottom of the barrel every. single. month. Right now, the state is still willing to cover my health care, although there was a rise in copays. If I had to pay for my health insurance, I'd have to cancel my gym membership, which is a "luxury" but something I need for my mental health. Gas prices have gone up more than 100% since I started teaching and my pay has only gone down. Those teachers living on "Snob Hill" probably have a husband in corporate america paying for most things. As my mom always tells me, a teacher's salary is a good second income, but it's very hard to live on.

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

With that, I have already created the next reality show. Instead of wife swap, teacher swap. Get a 6 or 7 figure CEO (who they always tend to have a lot to say about education but have never set foot in a classroom) switch lives with a teacher. One week in our jobs, their attitudes would change. Now, which network to propose that too? . Fox, CBS, ABC, NBC, etc...

I'm writing to MTV. True Life: I'm a public school teacher.

[agzg]

The whole "You don't understand! You're not a teacher!" reminds me of the "You don't get to have an opinion on kids! You're not a parent!" or "You don't get to have an opinion on birth! You've never done it."

Yeah. Okie dokie then. Reaaaaaaaaaal productive, that.

[XAntoftheSkyX]

This makes me feel so much better that I teach music and movement instead of core academics. I feel for those teachers, I really do. I like being able to do what I do best with little to no interaction from parents.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by agzg

The whole "You don't understand! You're not a teacher!" reminds me of the "You don't get to have an opinion on kids! You're not a parent!" or "You don't get to have an opinion on birth! You've never done it."

Yeah. Okie dokie then. Reaaaaaaaaaal productive, that.

To play the devil's advocate...

Don't we do the same thing here on GC? There are some very strong feelings on this board that people should not give out recruitment information if they have no firsthand knowledge of the process of the school or conference in question.

I wouldn't dream of offering detailed advice about an SEC recruitment because I have no personal experience in that department. I wouldn't give advice about NPHC because I know nothing about it.

Did I have thoughts and opinions about children before I became a parent? Yes. Did I have thoughts and opinions about delivery before I became pregnant? Yes. Am I better qualified to speak to those issues now that I've experienced both? Yes.

Are all people entitled to have opinions about education? Yes. Do all people have the education, skills and experience to make valuable contributions to the discussion? No. I don't think educators are trying to tell people they shouldn't contribute to the conversation. But unless you are a teacher, you really don't know what it is like to be a teacher. Being a student for 13 or 17 years doesn't make a person insightful on the experience and plight of a teacher.

And even after going through pregnancy and having a child... I still keep my mouth shut about those topics most of the time.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie

To play the devil's advocate...

Don't we do the same thing here on GC? There are some very strong feelings on this board that people should not give out recruitment information if they have no firsthand knowledge of the process of the school or conference in question.

I wouldn't dream of offering detailed advice about an SEC recruitment because I have no personal experience in that department. I wouldn't give advice about NPHC because I know nothing about it.

Did I have thoughts and opinions about children before I became a parent? Yes. Did I have thoughts and opinions about delivery before I became pregnant? Yes. Am I better qualified to speak to those issues now that I've experienced both? Yes.

Are all people entitled to have opinions about education? Yes. Do all people have the education, skills and experience to make valuable contributions to the discussion? No. I don't think educators are trying to tell people they shouldn't contribute to the conversation. But unless you are a teacher, you really don't know what it is like to be a teacher. Being a student for 13 or 17 years doesn't make a person insightful on the experience and plight of a teacher.

And even after going through pregnancy and having a child... I still keep my mouth shut about those topics most of the time.

There's a difference between teaching as a profession and membership in a fraternity and sorority, particularly because of the closed nature of ritual/membership selection, etc. Teachers don't typically keep secrets - in fact, at the core of their profession they are sharing knowledge.

One may not want to give advice on SEC recruitment, but any GC member who is correct can give advice about mutual selection, RFM, Quota, etc. It's when people get into rumor mongering that it gets them into trouble. Also when people give advice about clothes to wear when they're an asshole, that'll get them in trouble, too.

But shutting down someone's opinion about education because "they're not a teacher" is particularly counterproductive because many people who are shut down pay the taxes that allow public schools to remain open, and they certainly have a place in the dialogue.

Just like I'm well within my rights to call your kid an asshole if your kid is being an asshole, and I'm well within my rights to call you an asshole if you're the reason your kid is an asshole.

I don't think it's right to say "no you're wrong your experience is invalidated!" to a teacher because, obviously, they live it. But it's not impossible for someone who is not a teacher to understand what teachers go through every day (in fact, this understanding is a reason why I'm NOT a teacher), and it's not impossible for someone who's not a parent to understand what parents go through. It's not like it's a conceptually hard idea to grasp.

[Low C Sharp]

The problem isn't parents who listen to their children and come in willing to hear the teacher; the problem is the parents who will not even entertain the idea that their little snowflake could do anything wrong.

Completely agree. That just isn't what the article said. If that's what the author meant, it was poorly expressed.

I agree that the teacher, the adult, is unlikely to call a parent meeting unless she is certain that the your kid did the crime. But during that meeting, she is not very likely to volunteer that the student's crime followed an inappropriate action on her part. A good parent needs the whole story in order to decide the right way to discipline the kid.

Asking the student whether what the teacher said is true is also a good way to give the kid an opportunity to come clean rather than compounding the crime by lying. A good parent needs to know whether the kid understands the wrongness of his actions.

[SydneyK]

What Parents Wish Teachers Knew About Working as Partners

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Literally, I have 5 minutes before I head out the door to teach. Sweet irony . . .

Drole - While I could post everything I found to be hostile, I suspect that you would then disagree, and this could go on and on. It goes back to the whole "tone" thing in some cases - in others it goes back to the lack of respect given to teachers and their training, which leads me to . . .

Originally Posted by DrPhil

(Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

I do not think Drolefille was responding to that article but instead to KSUViolet's post about a teacher "diagnosing" (read: giving an opinion that may be relatively informed) a student. Such "diagnoses" should be researched and discussed but in many school systems for generations people went based on teacher and staff referrals rather than getting a second opinion. That is how a lot of students ended up in the "special" classes, the ones without windows and many of them didn't eat lunch with the "regular kids," and that includes students with physical "disabilities," mental "disabilities," and students with "conduct disorders."

Nope you were right.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

No, I don't want a cookie. I would like recognition of the fact that yes, my parenting is influenced by the fact I'm a teacher and guess what? ...

I was being, you might be shocked, sarcastic. Which is precisely how your comment came off. "Oh snap you guys, you wanted a parents' perspective AND YOU GOT ONE." you seemed to be saying. And yet it ignores the fact that that wasn't what people actually meant as your perspective on the parent/teacher relationship is necessarily skewed in one direction. No shit it's not a bad thing, but the point is that it's irrelevent to the discussion in the way you were trying to use it.

But you can just thank God you've never had to subject your children to the horror that would be having me as a teacher; praise Jesus you've never had to sit across the table from me as we tried to address your child's problems.

Other than my hypothetical child's hypothetical teacher having difficulty identifying sarcasm in others while employing it to hyperbolic effect herself, it probably wouldn't be a problem.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Oh, yes, that's exactly what I meant. Thank you for clarifying. Here I was thinking it was liable to be misinterpreted as pointing out that teacher's don't call meetings just to amuse themselves and to fill up all that spare time they have since they only work from 8 - 3, but you've summed it up nicely.

Sarcasm. You can't read it, and then use it, and then still somehow pretend that you didn't get it.

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

As for diagnosing, we can't diagnose. Hell, we can't even hint at what we think is wrong. If I went to parent and said "I think Johnny is ADHD, you should take him to the doctor", mom can come back and make the district (or me) pay for the doctor treatments because I "diagnosed" her kid. I know for myself, I'm not taking that chance. I've got a kid right now who I know is ADHD, I am documenting, documenting, documenting. I will then approach the nurse and the guidance counselor on how to approach mom with my concerns. I may know that the kid is ADHD, but I cannot legally diagnose the kid as ADHD (if that makes any sense).

Makes sense, and is how it SHOULD be, because for example, ADHD requires deficits in two areas of a child's life. You only see 'school' and not 'home' and therefore while a child might be showing all the symptoms of ADHD at school, it might really NOT be ADHD but behavioral problems caused by some other source.

There are obviously other factors involved, but having school counselor classmates/friends, what you're doing is exactly what they'd like to see, and even though they're trained most of the time they'd still have to write a referral.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I stand corrected - you did not say every situation is different: you said

So please - instead of "every situation is different" insert "no one-size-fits-all". Whew! Glad to clarify THAT.

And as to being "stuck" - I've decided that you are determined to misconstrue anything I write, so I'll just bow to the inevitable and say I apologize in 12 different positions for thinking that my 20+ years as a parent and as an educator gave me any special insight to what may have prompted the article or how to improve parent/teacher communication.

There's some huge miscontruing going on, but it is NOT on DrPhil's part.

Originally Posted by katydidKD

this is why i said "im not going to argue" when DF tried to start shit with me. some people are just determined to bitch. not worth pleasing them.

If that's all it takes to start shit with you, how do you ever get through the day?

Originally Posted by katydidKD

now you're taking the analogy ridiculously out of context. I am saying that teachers are professionals and should be treated as such, just like you'd treat your doctor or lawyer. I just dont care to hear DF moan on and on. Like many other people.

There's an ignore function if you want to whine about me, you and your countless agreeing invisible people.

Originally Posted by katydidKD

Yes, i should have spoken more clearly.

Which is all I asked for in the first place.

But you know me, I'm so female with my complaining and moaning and whining and nagging.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

That is wonderful. Children benefit when we combine the "teacher-to-parent" and "parent-to-teacher" messages.

http://dpi.wi.gov/fscp/pdf/prnt-ldrshp3rs.pdf

(I hope the .pdf shows up for everyone.)

The pdf showed up just fine for me - thanks for the link. The 3 R's are definitely important.

I think what it boils down to is that we're all on the same team. When we start pointing fingers about what each side is doing wrong, then it breaks down the effectiveness of the team, at the expense of the kids. If the parent/teacher relationship gets broken down into Us vs. Them, no one wins.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AlwaysSAI

Those teachers living on "Snob Hill" probably have a husband in corporate america paying for most things.

ROFLMAO. There is no "Corporate America" in the town of which I speak. If anything, the more monied housing is probably owned by families where both husband and wife are teachers.

Please remember, we are talking Peyton Place type SMALL TOWN, where your name gets you waaaaaay farther than your ability and things have not changed for 100 years (CBS News said it, so it must be true).

[AlwaysSAI]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I find it really interesting that this thread has turned into this. I understand why it has turned into this. I just see great irony because the belief that teachers are overworked and underpaid is really what most topics of teaching are embedded in--even when some teachers get angry when people say that is what it is embedded in. Like I said, there is always more than a one-sided story and many teachers would be more tolerant of school system ups and downs if they felt they were working for equal compensation.

If someone is going to try to say that I am making too much money as a teacher, I am surely going to tell them they are sorely mistaken. If it wouldn't have me "found out", I'd have no problem posting my monthly take home pay and compare that to my required living expenses. Then, tell me I live on Snob Hill and don't deserve a pay increase.

Originally Posted by 33girl

ROFLMAO. There is no "Corporate America" in the town of which I speak. If anything, the more monied housing is probably owned by families where both husband and wife are teachers.

You don't know that both husband and wife are teachers on Snob Hill. I live in a teeny tiny town where name goes further as well, but could easily commute ~1 hour in any direction to Corporate America.

/permanently exiting thread now.