The Golden Rule

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

I get what you're saying, but you misunderstood me a little. I meant that she went through as a freshman, is now a sophomore. I'm not dispensing out advice so much as dwelling on the fact that she dropped out last year. Can't change it, so let's give advice on what we can do now moving forward.

I get you disagree with me on this whole concept, and that's fine. I'm not demanding anyone do anything except maybe think twice and be more polite. That's all. Sorry you think I'm a bad person.

Be a little less demanding. Who made you the polite police?

P.S. als463...I'm glad I entertain you!

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by aopirose

I thought so too, but apparently not. www.orangejulius.com

There's one in the mall of my town. I should totally go get one since I can't start drinking wine yet.

[als463]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Be a little less demanding. Who made you the polite police?

P.S. als463...I'm glad I entertain you!

Hahhaha, you totally did entertain me. I will have to use that, now.

[KSUViolet06]

You guys were being SUCH cyber bullies to noobs in here:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...d.php?t=121377

and SUCH HOSTILITY here:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...803#post208380

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

You guys were being SUCH cyber bullies to noobs in here:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...d.php?t=121377

and SUCH HOSTILITY here:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...803#post208380

To this, I refer back to:

Originally Posted by shirley1929

I also know someone is going to reply to this post defending something they said or did. I may or may not be speaking directly to you.

And yes, I know those were nice posts.

[Drolefille]

This post is reserved for my reply to be made when I'm no longer at work.


Your post is important to us. It will be answered in the order it was received.

Please hold.

[DaffyKD]

Originally Posted by aopirose

I thought so too, but apparently not. www.orangejulius.com

Wow, I too thought they had all gone out of business. Looked at the site and found there are 4 within 25 miles of me.

DaffyKD

[als463]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

This post is reserved for my reply to be made when I'm no longer at work.


Your post is important to us. It will be answered in the order it was received.

Please hold.

Is it wrong of me that I am really looking forward to your post? This whole time I was thinking, "Why hasn't Drolefille said anything?" I also looked forward to reading something from MC, KS, and DrPhil.

[VandalSquirrel]

Now maybe it is because I haven't been having the best day that I'm responding thusly, but instead of a passive aggressive finger wagging thread, why not just call out the individuals who are sugar pops mean girls and you think are poor examples? Why make a thread that the majority find insulting and ridiculous, and therefore make yourself a target for the horrible behavior of all of us?

Do I think a lot of posters, both PNMs and their mamas need to get a grip and step away from GC? Obviously! However I find the whole intention of this thread exponentially more ridiculous and ludicrous than things that have allegedly been said. I'm not going to tell someone to go to Happy Pony Rainbow Land (get it right if you're going to mock it and us) I'm going to tell you that if you're this butt hurt over GC you want to call us out and throw some shade, perhaps you need to learn about the ignore function or log off from the internet for awhile.

Call individuals and their behavior out by name, or keep it to yourself. If that statement is going to hold in the recruitment forum for a certain mama, daughter, and what not when people get accusatory, it is good enough for the Greek Life forum.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by als463

I also looked forward to reading something from MC, KS, and DrPhil.

All right. My $0.02, for what they're worth:

I think threads like this rarely have the desired effect. Even when motivated by a sincere desire to improve things, they tend to come across as patronizing and preachy. People do not usually respond positively to what can come across like pontification. So the result is that more often than not threads like this produce the opposite of the desired effect. This is a fairly foreseeable outcome.

I think that is particularly true when legitimate opinions are minimized. For example, to ask that someone with a differing opinion not be called a "sock-puppet" or "troll" diminishes the valid criticisms of real sock-puppets and trolls by dismissing those criticisms as "you just disagree with/don't like them."

I also think it is particularly true when someone suggests in any way that others aren't living up to the ideals of their fraternity or sorority. I learned that the hard way many years ago. Judgmental observations are rarely appreciated.

Yes, many here go overboard sometimes, me included I'm afraid. But sometimes the harshness is, if not polite, understandable. The actions of some posters have taught others not to take everything at face value, or to recognize signs that something isn't on the up-and-up.

No, it's not always pretty. But I tend to think these things have a way of working and evening themselves out, and the best way for that to happen is through dialogue -- challenging specific posts that one thinks are out of line and letting the community, with moderator assistance when necessary, police itself.

Passive-aggressive threads like this, on the other hand, fan the flames and become part of the problem.

[UGAalum94]

I suspect it's not surprising that I agree in principle with most of what the OP says. We can quibble about the relative obnoxiousness of implying we're embarrassing our GLOs, but I think it pales in comparison with some of the unnecessary meanness that a lot of us have delivered at one point or another.

However, I think cyberbullying is a huge overstatement of what goes on here. I'm skeptical of the cyberbullying concept generally and think that it's getting way blown out of proportion when identified as a social problem.

ETA: as usual MC nails it.

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

Now maybe it is because I haven't been having the best day that I'm responding thusly, but instead of a passive aggressive finger wagging thread, why not just call out the individuals who are sugar pops mean girls and you think are poor examples? Why make a thread that the majority find insulting and ridiculous, and therefore make yourself a target for the horrible behavior of all of us?

Do I think a lot of posters, both PNMs and their mamas need to get a grip and step away from GC? Obviously! However I find the whole intention of this thread exponentially more ridiculous and ludicrous than things that have allegedly been said. I'm not going to tell someone to go to Happy Pony Rainbow Land (get it right if you're going to mock it and us) I'm going to tell you that if you're this butt hurt over GC you want to call us out and throw some shade, perhaps you need to learn about the ignore function or log off from the internet for awhile.

Call individuals and their behavior out by name, or keep it to yourself. If that statement is going to hold in the recruitment forum for a certain mama, daughter, and what not when people get accusatory, it is good enough for the Greek Life forum.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

All right. My $0.02, for what they're worth:

I think threads like this rarely have the desired effect. Even when motivated by a sincere desire to improve things, they tend to come across as patronizing and preachy. People do not usually respond positively to what can come across like pontification. So the result is that more often than not threads like this produce the opposite of the desired effect. This is a fairly foreseeable outcome.

I think that is particularly true when legitimate opinions are minimized. For example, to ask that someone with a differing opinion not be called a "sock-puppet" or "troll" diminishes the valid criticisms of real sock-puppets and trolls by dismissing those criticisms as "you just disagree with/don't like them."

I also think it is particularly true when someone suggests in any way that others aren't living up to the ideals of their fraternity or sorority. I learned that the hard way many years ago. Judgmental observations are rarely appreciated.

Yes, many here go overboard sometimes, me included I'm afraid. But sometimes the harshness is, if not polite, understandable. The actions of some posters have taught others not to take everything at face value, or to recognize signs that something isn't on the up-and-up.

No, it's not always pretty. But I tend to think these things have a way of working and evening themselves out, and the best way for that to happen is through dialogue -- challenging specific posts that one thinks are out of line and letting the community, with moderator assistance when necessary, police itself.

Passive-aggressive threads like this, on the other hand, fan the flames and become part of the problem.

I'm dead honest when I say, I appreciate what you both have to say here. You're right, I am being passive aggressive and maybe it's just because I don't have time to comment on every single thread and look more like the "cyber-police" as I've been called here. My point from the first is to have people just think about the whole picture (and how your - not you personally of course - post might be received) when posting. That's it. I was probably too wordy in the way that I said it. So maybe that's a better way of saying it.

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I suspect it's not surprising that I agree in principle with most of what the OP says. We can quibble about the relative obnoxiousness of implying we're embarrassing our GLOs, but I think it pales in comparison with some of the unnecessary meanness that a lot of us have delivered at one point or another.

However, I think cyberbullying is a huge overstatement of what goes on here. I'm skeptical of the cyberbullying concept generally and think that it's getting way blown out of proportion when identified as a social problem.

ETA: as usual MC nails it.

Cyber-bullying is a big statement, but the idea of continually kicking and dogpile-ing on someone when they're down, from behind a unknown username is more hurtful. You're more likely to say more damaging things when you can remain anonymous. They still hurt. Again, I'm just asking people to think before posting...that's all.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

GreekChat is a wonderful place for learning about all sorts of GLO’s. I know that many of the “old timers” get tired of repetitive questions and ignorance, but I thought I’d offer up some food for thought:

And here's where you made your first mistake.

We are dealing with 18-20 year old women, most who are moving away from home for the first time and going through yet another life transition through recruitment. Emotions and tensions run high.

No. Freaking. Way. REALLY? Damn. News to me!

We’re also dealing with their mothers, most of whom are sane, NON heli-moms, but their emotions are running high as well. Both groups may not be stepping out with their best foot forward when the stumble upon GreekChat.

Adult women should know enough to step away from the keyboard if they're going to rant about how Alpha Beta Gamma is a chapter of TRAMPS who aren't good enough for their daughter anyway. Damn, that'd be a good thread.

1) Please do not “out” someone or threaten to tank their rush because of something they say out of ignorance or frustration. A simple PM or message to “please edit your post” would suffice. After that, please step away from the keyboard.

What happens in your world: The meanies of GC pounce on the poor desperate PNM who is emotionally traumatized after high emotions lead to frustated sayings.

What happens more often: GCers tell PNMs to STFU and stop posting because it's really freaking obvious where they go to school and who they are after they said something really stupid in the first place like, "What are the ranks of the sororities at my school and how can a one handed saxophonist like me get into the best one?" And even then it's generally because they don't listen.

2) Limit your QFP’s.

No.

Sometimes it feels like that person is trying to be chased off the message board when every statement they make is QFPed.

So?

Doesn’t exactly make for a welcoming “We’re so happy to hear your story and we’re rooting for you” environment.

Sorry, our job is to play cheerleader? Where's it say that? People who feel as such will express that, people who wish to quote a PNM's comments will do that. Life goes on.

3) Yes, they need to slow down and read historical links, but sometimes they just aren’t thinking rationally.

Right so don't TELL them to think rationally, just pity party them and treat them like they're incapable.

Since they have just found Greek Chat, they might assume we haven’t been around a long time. We have, but they don’t realize that at first.

Guess how they can tell? They read the little date by the posters' names. And when someone tells them to do a search, or helpful people like KSUViolet post LINKS for them. God we're so cruel, making them do tricky things like read and think. (Dear lord this post reads like the poor female teenagers can't possibly think straight due to their crazy emotions. Not sure why we even bother educating the poor dears, really.)

4) If someone has a differing opinion than you, please do not refer to him/her as a Sockpuppet or Troll. Particularly if that person’s start date with GC is longer than this past week.

You don't understand the meaning of those words obviously. EW has been trolling for years, and the socks usually make it a few months (or longer) without being called out. People who don't post their affiliations and still try to give advice on GC get called out for good reason. Put up or shut up. That goes for you too. Grow some ovaries and post your words with your letters.

And if we have multiple socks that are still around and posting because they're chickenshits and can't bear to be snarky under their real names - or have tarnished their real names so terribly I suppose.

That person might have actually been lurking for quite sometime and finally decided to speak up.

Don't care, if you troll or sock you troll or sock no matter how long you lurk. The two are not connected.

Also, just because someone hasn’t mentioned their GLO by name, does not mean that they are not a member of one. It might just mean that they’re trying to be discreet.

That is not discretion, that's making an ass of themselves. If I walk up to you and start telling you how to make a million dollars but I won't show you my bank statements, will you trust me?

If you're claiming authority on recruitment matters, put up or shut up. And quite frankly if you're going to claim to be a sorority member at all, put up or shut up. We have no time for perps. Verify your letters with another GC member of your organization and move on.

5) Can we refrain from bashing people who decide to withdraw? BLAH BLAH BLAH [/quote]
People get bashed for withdrawing BEFORE PREF while in the same breath bitching about being dropped by the popular chapters.

6) Furthermore, I’d like to contend that “dog piling” and generally being unkind to strangers is unbecoming of each of our GLO’s.

Fuck off. Seriously. Where the fuck do you think you get off telling me what my GLO cares about? HQs read GC, and if they have an issue with something I say they can tell me about it. You, however, can go and fuck yourself.

In today’s society, I believe that kicking a person when they are down, on the internet, while hiding behind a username is pretty much the exact definition of “cyber-bullying”.

No, it's not. Learn something before you post bullshit.

There have been tragic cases noted in the media. Please do not become one of the headlines.

And WHERE THE FUCK do you get off piggybacking on real tragedies to try and make your point here?

I’m not in favor of unicorns-pooping-rainbows, but I AM in favor of being kind and remembering the golden rule when dealing with all humans.

You don't actually know what the "golden rule" is do you? Newsflash, I follow it. Odds are so does everyone here. We just expect people to be direct with us and tell us when we're being stupid rather than pretending things are cupcakes and rainbows.

By the way you're being stupid.

I’m also not stupid enough to believe that I’m not about to get flamed right now.

And yet you posted.

I also know someone is going to reply to this post defending something they said or did. I may or may not be speaking directly to you.

Stop being a fucking coward and be direct or take your ball and go home.

And, I also know that someone will make a snark about me and my measly 85 posts. Just because I haven't said much, doesn't mean I don't have much to say.

WTF would I need to snark you for that? That would be weaksauce. The passive aggressive bullshit you try to post as a call for ~*~Kindness~*~ is all I really need.

Seriously, your post count has nothing to do with it, this is so very much a "Do you even go here?" moment. I mean, really? It took you this long to find out how big and mean we are and now your brilliant solution was this post? Think longer next time.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

All right. My $0.02, for what they're worth:

I think threads like this rarely have the desired effect. Even when motivated by a sincere desire to improve things, they tend to come across as patronizing and preachy. People do not usually respond positively to what can come across like pontification. So the result is that more often than not threads like this produce the opposite of the desired effect. This is a fairly foreseeable outcome.

Agreed.

I think that is particularly true when legitimate opinions are minimized. For example, to ask that someone with a differing opinion not be called a "sock-puppet" or "troll" diminishes the valid criticisms of real sock-puppets and trolls by dismissing those criticisms as "you just disagree with/don't like them."

True, although I don't actually see that happening here.

I also think it is particularly true when someone suggests in any way that others aren't living up to the ideals of their fraternity or sorority. I learned that the hard way many years ago. Judgmental observations are rarely appreciated.

Yep

Yes, many here go overboard sometimes, me included I'm afraid. But sometimes the harshness is, if not polite, understandable. The actions of some posters have taught others not to take everything at face value, or to recognize signs that something isn't on the up-and-up.

Yep.

No, it's not always pretty. But I tend to think these things have a way of working and evening themselves out, and the best way for that to happen is through dialogue -- challenging specific posts that one thinks are out of line and letting the community, with moderator assistance when necessary, police itself.

Precisely, if one has an issue, the best way to impact it is to address it.
[/quote]

Passive-aggressive threads like this, on the other hand, fan the flames and become part of the problem.

FLAME ON

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

Now maybe it is because I haven't been having the best day that I'm responding thusly, but instead of a passive aggressive finger wagging thread, why not just call out the individuals who are sugar pops mean girls and you think are poor examples? Why make a thread that the majority find insulting and ridiculous, and therefore make yourself a target for the horrible behavior of all of us?

This. (although making her a target provided some entertainment)

I'm going to tell you that if you're this butt hurt over GC you want to call us out and throw some shade, perhaps you need to learn about the ignore function or log off from the internet for awhile.

And this.

Call individuals and their behavior out by name, or keep it to yourself. If that statement is going to hold in the recruitment forum for a certain mama, daughter, and what not when people get accusatory, it is good enough for the Greek Life forum.

But mostly this.

Originally Posted by als463

Is it wrong of me that I am really looking forward to your post? This whole time I was thinking, "Why hasn't Drolefille said anything?" I also looked forward to reading something from MC, KS, and DrPhil.

I'm flattered I suppose

Originally Posted by shirley1929

You're right, I am being passive aggressive

Yes.

and maybe it's just because I don't have time to comment on every single thread and look more like the "cyber-police" as I've been called here.

No, I'm going with coward.

Cyber-bullying is a big statement, but the idea of continually kicking and dogpile-ing on someone when they're down, from behind a unknown username is more hurtful. You're more likely to say more damaging things when you can remain anonymous.

Gee, thank you internet scientist. This is not news. So when I speak with my letters and my username I'm not really being anonymous. You don't need my legal name and address. You on the other hand, don't seem to think your letters are part of your identity, are posting anonymously on the same website and think preaching at us is ok? Hmmmmmm.

They still hurt. Again, I'm just asking people to think before posting...that's all.

You're assuming we don't think. We do. We just disagree with you.

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Is it dogpiling if you're the first one to snark?

God stop being so mean.

/no it isn't.

Originally Posted by shirley1929

If you want to dig through my posts, I have actually out-ed my school on more than one occasion. I choose not to out my GLO only because I've recently had relatives going through recruitment and would like to not leave a giant internet footprint like we've mentioned here on this site before.

That doesn't even make sense. My cousin went through recruitment at Mizzou and suffered no ill effects due to my presence here because I didn't make a big deal about it or post her life story. Your inability to do the same seems odd.

I just know what it's like to be 18 and feeling like you're being ganged up on for something you've said. Cyber-bullying is real and much of it is in the perception of the receiver.

No, it isn't. And the posts in these threads aren't bullying.

I'm just asking everyone to think before they say something that might be construed as bashing to a young adult. If that makes me a horrible person, please let me know. I think this site is a wonderful resource and just would like to see it a little more welcoming to noobs. That's all.

You're being really dumb right now. Maybe you're not all the time, I don't really have an impression of you outside of this thread, but right now... DUMB.

That's all.

[knight_shadow]

I don't think you covered everything, DF