Scary Quota Numbers - Page 6

33girl · #76 07-16-2011, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnation

I can't figure out Arkansas. On the one hand, every sorority member I've know there has bemoaned the huge quotas and associated problems. On the other hand, I keep hearing about the poor PH environment regarding expansion.

Wake up, Arkansas! You're shooting yourselves in the foot!

I thought that (from my GC reading) it wasn't the collegians that had the crap ass attitude to other groups and/or expansion, it was the alumnae with long memories.

gee_ess - I understand smaller-system schools getting incompetent GL employees due to their reluctance to pay more than 2.5 cents a year, but surely at Arkansas with so many people participating they could afford to hire someone who knows what they're doing?

On a random note, what is guys' rush like at Arkansas? Would the fraternities be supportive of a new chapter?

Titchou · #77 07-16-2011, 09:45 AM

gee_ess: I have been trying to be very polite and circumspect here about this situation. Yes, it's competitive there. But the PH environment overall is nothing like Alabama. And it's very indicative of the problems when PH fails to see the need for expansion and the University president, getting tired of the wailing and gnashing of teeth from alumni, finally tells them to expand.

gee_ess · #78 07-16-2011, 09:46 AM

33girl -I totally agree. The big complaint among UA boosters who also happen (in large numbers) to be Greek, is that the UA kind of dismisses the Greek system as a small pimple on the....well you get the picture.

Guys would love another crop of "in the accepted circle" girls. Sure, they get hung up on tiers just like a lot of people, but girls are girls and you can't beat a sorority girl!! Guys rush is formal, by the way, and takes place after the girls. From all accounts, it is a crazy drunken experience that occurs under the facade of organized invites and rounds.

gee_ess · #79 07-16-2011, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titchou

gee_ess: I have been trying to be very polite and circumspect here about this situation. Yes, it's competitive there. But the PH environment overall is nothing like Alabama. And it's very indicative of the problems when PH fails to see the need for expansion and the University president, getting tired of the wailing and gnashing of teeth from alumni, finally tells them to expand.

I think we are on the same page, Titchou, or maybe I am misunderstanding your point. If so, feel free to PM me. I am not really comparing Alabama to ARkansas specifically, just in the terms of 'this is a large state school, so are we'.

Also, let me say that the current UA president may be more supportive of the Greek system, but the last was not and this problem has been building for a long time.

PhoenixAzul · #80 07-16-2011, 10:05 AM

I'm just trying to understand, because this is so far removed from my experience...

When people say, "poor panhellenic environment"...are they speaking of a general unwillingness to work together for community goals outside of expansion/recruitment? Or is it just in regards to expansion? Is this a function of an extremely competitive recruitment, where chapters are constantly battling for the top PNMs?

It is just really interesting to me, because it would seem that expansion would benefit everybody. A new sorority would get a chapter at a prestigious school, filled with qualified and quality new members, and the existing chapters would get some relief from massive pledge classes and overstuffed chapter meetings. Am I oversimplifying?

DubaiSis · #81 07-16-2011, 10:15 AM

I think you've stated clearly why most of us think this problem is nuts. The problem with GC is we can't ask for an interview with, say, the director of Greek Life, the panhellenic president, the 9 chapter presidents, etc. All we can do is speculate about why they would be making their own lives more difficult. Now, if anyone can arrange that interview, I am so all in to hear/read it.

Titchou · #82 07-16-2011, 10:42 AM

There are a lot of competitive recruitment schools out there. The key is whether PH abides by NPC policy and procedure. When you're in an alternative universe where the rules and a general PH spirit are not part of the culture, it's a formula for disaster. When the women look at a struggling chapter as a positive thing for the other chapters rather than undertaking a plan to assist them, well, it's not what NPC envisions. And obviously not the groups who aren't there. When a campus like Arkansas opens for expansion and NO ONE wants to go, you've got more problems than the cost of building a house.

wavycutchip · #83 07-16-2011, 10:46 AM

I am not sure what else the Director or Greek Life, Pan President, or 8 chapter Presidents can actually do to help make it easier for one of the 16 NPC groups not on campus to actually make an application to join. It is my understanding they have been open for expansion in the Fall and Spring, and while exploratory groups came, there was not a formal application to be considered by the Panhellenic.

Are you saying that the individual chapters should pitch in money for a 9th group to come on campus? It is my understanding from GC comments that Alabama is putting up bond money to help build a chapter facility - I am pretty sure that is something above the Director of Greek Life's ability to provide. I think that one thing that has hurt is that in the Panhellenic Constitution and Bylaws (http://uagreeks.uark.edu/3330.php) states that Expansion can only occur when all chapters are close to or at total (and I would assume this is normal for most campuses). In the past, there have been times when 1 or 2 chapters are no where near total, but the other groups were bursting at the seams. Again - the monster that keeps getting bigger was thus created.

I can only speak for my group when I say that they are very open and willing to add another group on campus. However (and I am only speculating - I have no inside knowledge of this), I could also see where many of the chapters, rich is 2nd and 3rd generation legacies, may actually like the idea of larger pledge classes, because it means that they don't have to drop as many legacies, but also get to bring in new members without ties to their organizations in each pledge class. It keeps alumnae with legacies happy with their legacy in their chapter, but also helps the chapters to have the members that are at the top of their RTP list because of their own accomplishments and what they can bring to the chapter.

I would be interested to know what GC'ers think the Pan community at Arkansas could do to get better, and thus have NPC groups want to come on campus. Any thoughts?

wavycutchip · #84 07-16-2011, 10:50 AM

Titchou, I just read your words while I was writing mine. I see where you are going there, but I would say that UA has worked to increase Panhellenic Spirit among the sororities. Maybe not as much as other schools, as I am not familiar with those, but looking at the Greek Beat newsletters, there are some good things happening. As far as following NPC policy and procedure, I guess that is an area where the NPC area advisor could be utilized?

Titchou · #85 07-16-2011, 11:02 AM

I think I'll just leave it at the following, which I've sort of stated before: when a campus like Arkansas opens for expansion (competitive southern school with plenty of PNMs) and not one NPC group, even those who have been there before and have plenty of in state alumnae support, makes application, that is very telling, in more ways than one.

TriDeltaSallie · #86 07-16-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titchou

There are a lot of competitive recruitment schools out there. The key is whether PH abides by NPC policy and procedure. When you're in an alternative universe where the rules and a general PH spirit are not part of the culture, it's a formula for disaster. When the women look at a struggling chapter as a positive thing for the other chapters rather than undertaking a plan to assist them, well, it's not what NPC envisions. And obviously not the groups who aren't there. When a campus like Arkansas opens for expansion and NO ONE wants to go, you've got more problems than the cost of building a house.

This is the problem we had at our school. Horribly uncooperative spirit amongst the three tiers and the upper tier couldn't be bothered with anyone below them. There were chapters that consistently failed to make quota despite tons of hard work.

So what did Panhel do? Brought in a new group of course!

The new group is still there, but four of the other chapters folded. Quota is now almost half of what it was and Greek Life (while never huge) has diminished even more. Now there is a new group of bottom houses.

I really cannot fathom being on a campus where the successful groups really want a struggling group to improve and thrive. Honestly. It is so not even in my realm of possibility.

33girl · #87 07-16-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavycutchip

Are you saying that the individual chapters should pitch in money for a 9th group to come on campus? It is my understanding from GC comments that Alabama is putting up bond money to help build a chapter facility - I am pretty sure that is something above the Director of Greek Life's ability to provide.

I don't think startup money is an issue for several of the groups not there. Whether you will ever see any kind of return on that money is the issue.

wavycutchip · #88 07-16-2011, 06:18 PM

Hoping its not wishful thinking, but I am hoping that one of the reasons why 3 of those NPC groups didn't pursue re-colonization at Arkansas is because they already have large colonizations planned for this year (Phi Mu at Kentucky, Theta at Oregon, and DG at Alabama). I guess I am the eternal optimist that NPC groups might want to come along soon, and get the opportunity to create a great chapter with some wonderful women who go to school at Arkansas

Titchou · #89 07-16-2011, 07:04 PM

To quote Robert Service:

I just think that dreams are best
Just to sit and fancy things

gee_ess · #90 07-17-2011, 09:11 AM

I guess Wavycutchip and I are just eternal optimists then...I know my group- alumnae and actives- is openly asking for another group(or two!) to come on campus. And, since I know Wavy is involved with her chapter like I am with mine, I believe her when she says hers is supportive as well. I truly believe the groups on campus want this.

Tiichou,we could use some solid suggestions and guidance from you on what we can do from our end to get this accomplished. It is obviously something you are familiar with. Help us help ourselves.