First signs of a bad first date

[AGDee]

Yeah, it was a good date.

Kind of similar to 33girl's note about the guy who bought her roses and teddy bears and stuff.. I dated someone who showed up with flowers, stuffed animals and/or jewelry every single date. Real gold jewelry too, not costume stuff. I was newly divorced (first marriage) and struggling to get money to buy a vacuum and I said something to him like "If you want to buy me stuff, get me something useful like a vacuum." He showed up with a vacuum the next time. He never asked to borrow money from me though...lol. He was definitely more into me than I was into him and it was too imbalanced so I had to send him packing.

[dekeguy]

OK, I'm begining to think I am more than a little out of date. I'm told that I'm a bit old fashioned and traditional - but that's just me. My thoughts on a first date generally run to drinks, dinner, and maybe a piano bar where I can get to know the lady and find out something about her personality and interests.
I will of course tell her a bit about myself to see if anything clicks and most importantly to draw her out to see what she has to say for herself. I will choose a fairly upscale place which calls for me to wear a suit or coat and tie. In arranging this first date I will call and ask her out, suggest dinner, and ask if she likes such and such a place or such and such a cuisine. If so great, if not I ask for her suggestion.
Assuming I have met her at some function or other I have already found her to be interesting and attractive. The key point of her attractiveness is her eyes. Dull and lifeless and I'm not interested. Alive and inquisitive and I'm interested. Sparkling and bewitching and I'm in trouble already.
If she is up for a date I will call for her promptly, if she lives at home (less now than a few years ago) I will ask to meet her parents - I want to size them up too.
For the date I'll suggest a drink as we wait for our table and continue the conversation begun in the car. For dinner I will ask what she would like, offering suggestions if I know something they do well there. I ask 'shall I order for us or would you prefer to order for yourself?' I'll chose the wine to go with the meal. I rather do multi course meals to give us time to get some talking done. Major point: if she is a likely candidate for further dates I listen carefully to see something beyond the first impression appearances. Even if not, I'll listen anyway.
After dinner I will suggest a place where we can continue talking with music in the background.
By this time I will have figured out whether this one seems to be a keeper and I figure she has me pretty well pegged also. If this is a one time date I will take her home, tell her that I enjoyed her company, say good night, and maybe consider her for the role of 'friend'.
If this looks promising as I am driving her home I will ask her if I may see her again and suggest something she will have mentioned that interests her.
If the body language is right I would kiss her good night but not push the issue.
Next date might be anything from another dinner, a cocktail party, sailing, movie and a light meal, theatre, whatever. If she asks me to dinner at her place I will bring wine. If at home with parents then wine and flowers as a house gift.
On the very rare occasions of a blind date it is my job to see that she has a nice time and good memories of the evening no matter how good or horrible she turns out to be.
Being traditional I consider that I cover the evening and if there are subsequent dates I cover those as well. If this develops into a relationship then she might ask me to go somewhere with her on a 'her treat' basis. As things develop I would include her in my interests if she enjoyed them herself. Flyfishing in a mountain stream may or may not appeal to everyone. Riding is generally OK and shooting sporting clays is less likely. I row a fair amount but that is generally single skulls. Sailing is usually OK.
When I ask someone out I put my best foot forward and offer to take her somewhere and/or to something interesting. What I expect in return is the pleasure of her company and a modicum of effort on her part to be interesting.
I look at it as a simple expression of good manners.

[33girl]

If you can afford it, that sounds fine to me. If it's a blind date as in friends set you up, that's fine too. My wanting to go halfsies is solely an internet-dating thing - because you really don't know who this person is and don't have friends vouching for him.

[Drolefille]

@dekeguy, one of my boyfriends is of the more traditional bent as well when it comes to dating. He's also older and I wonder if that has something to do with it. (Not knowing how old you are ) Now, that said, we've gone on less formal dates, but he has a very formal mindset about some things.

However things that would turn me off would include even being offered to order for me. Having the capacity to speak for myself, I'm quite comfortable doing so. The only reason I'd want someone else to order for me would be because I don't speak the language. And I know drinking is part of most people's social lives, but drinks and wine wouldn't do anything for me. But then, you're not trying to date me

Just sharing my thoughts.

[dekeguy]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

@dekeguy, one of my boyfriends is of the more traditional bent as well when it comes to dating. He's also older and I wonder if that has something to do with it. (Not knowing how old you are )
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Mid-30s. I joined FB in 2002 when I was in Law School.
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Now, that said, we've gone on less formal dates, but he has a very formal mindset about some things.
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I was talking about first dates. Not more laid back pizza and a flic, or picnic with friends, or something informal.
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However things that would turn me off would include even being offered to order for me. Having the capacity to speak for myself, I'm quite comfortable doing so. The only reason I'd want someone else to order for me would be because I don't speak the language.
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And normally I'd agree with you, but again this is a formal meal and I have found that while it is death to assume it is often received as 'courtly' if one asks, particularly if she is not familiar with the restaurant and one is a regular who knows its strengths and weaknesses. At Antoine's -possibly appropriate, at Ruth Chris's Steak House -inappropriate. Both delicious but totally different vibe.
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And I know drinking is part of most people's social lives, but drinks and wine wouldn't do anything for me.
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Actually, I'm a very moderate drinker myself, but I think a good wine carefully paired with a good meal enhances the experience. There is a great deal of difference between a glass of champagne while waiting for your table followed by a glass or two of wine that compliments the food and the other extreme of getting hog wimpering paddled.
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But then, you're not trying to date me
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I suppose that would depend on whether you were interested, whether you were interesting (which I suspect), and whether you found the activities I described in my earlier post to your liking or that your's were better still.
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Just sharing my thoughts.

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Wow, what a coincidence!

Peter

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

@dekeguy, one of my boyfriends is of the more traditional bent as well when it comes to dating. He's also older and I wonder if that has something to do with it. (Not knowing how old you are ) Now, that said, we've gone on less formal dates, but he has a very formal mindset about some things.

However things that would turn me off would include even being offered to order for me. Having the capacity to speak for myself, I'm quite comfortable doing so. The only reason I'd want someone else to order for me would be because I don't speak the language. And I know drinking is part of most people's social lives, but drinks and wine wouldn't do anything for me. But then, you're not trying to date me

Just sharing my thoughts.

I'd take a dekeguy kind of date in a heart beat, but I'm old.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by dekeguy

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Wow, what a coincidence!

Peter

*chuckles* well then

The more formal/courtly boyfriend is actually older than you. But still I'd have kind of an issue with the whole ordering for me thing. And while I fully agree that wine/champagne appropriately paired is fundamentally different than getting sloshed, as a 'dislikes the taste of alcohol' person, it wouldn't work so much.

None of that is a dealbreaker so much though. And such a formal date CAN be completely appealing. I go about dating very much differently than others though, in that I would know the person very well before that first date - even just online, I typically talk/bond a lot before meeting. The times I have not done that have ended poorly, the times I have have resulted in relationships.

All of that said, my *ahem* dance card is a bit full at the moment in that I don't think I could see adding particularly another long distance relationship, but you know, you have my PM box *eyebrow waggle*

Originally Posted by AGDee

I'd take a dekeguy kind of date in a heart beat, but I'm old.

I want to make it clear I wouldn't reject the date in and of itself, but would just adjust a few things for an 'ideal' date. I got one of those kind of dates, including a walk afterwards that could be considered a 'constitutional' and was awesome.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Mitch

I get that, but if he didn't buy you anything, you'd probably complain about that, too.

Well, let me contrast him to the guy I dated for a very long time in my 30s. I never received a bought card from him - he MADE every birthday/Christmas card he ever gave me. He got me gifts that might not be traditionally "romantic" (a Beatles t-shirt, a waterfall, a book I wanted) but that meant a lot to me because he knew it was something I really wanted. And when he was out of work one year, he said "honey, Christmas is going to be pretty tight. I really want to be sure my niece who I love to bits gets something nice from me. Do you mind if we just skip it?" Of course I didn't.

Of course a lot of that is a difference in years and maturity...but no, if a guy was dirt poor, I'd rather he didn't buy me anything. I can take care of myself and I want to be with a guy who can do the same - that includes spending your money wisely, not for things you can't afford just because you think it'll impress a woman. I don't date men for what they can give me. If that's what they all believe all women are like, that's their problem, not mine.

I'm not completely against "traditional" gifts like flowers - they're lovely every once in a while - but with this guy, the FREQUENCY was f'ing ridiculous. He was using "bought" things to make up for his shortcomings. Did I mention he occasionally told me he didn't like what I was wearing and asked me to go change? Yep. This might not have fased me a few years later, but in my first relationship, and being VERY VERY sheltered and inexperienced and naive, it's a different story.

[dekeguy]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

*chuckles* well then

The more formal/courtly boyfriend is actually older than you. But still I'd have kind of an issue with the whole ordering for me thing. And while I fully agree that wine/champagne appropriately paired is fundamentally different than getting sloshed, as a 'dislikes the taste of alcohol' person, it wouldn't work so much.
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Well, there are rather a lot of alternatives to alcohol. One of my favorites is Pellegrino fizzy mineral water with a twist. From my corner, I don't drink wine for the taste of alcohol but for the complexity of taste of the specific wine complimenting the food. If I don't see what I think would do well I very often go with something soft. As to cocktails, there are always the old standbyes such as OJ and tonic, Ginger ale and cranberry juice, etc. Being old fashioned I suppose my priority is to see that my date enjoyes herself, not getting her out of her comfort zone on a first date!
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None of that is a dealbreaker so much though. And such a formal date CAN be completely appealing. I go about dating very much differently than others though, in that I would know the person very well before that first date - even just online, I typically talk/bond a lot before meeting. The times I have not done that have ended poorly, the times I have have resulted in relationships.
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As I mentioned, blind dates are very rare in my case. I like to know the person a bit before I ask her out on a date, so I tend to agree with you there.
In my earlier posting I mentioned that the lady's eyes are a major thing with me. I'd like to lock eyeballs and see both her and my reactions.
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All of that said, my *ahem* dance card is a bit full at the moment in that I don't think I could see adding particularly another long distance relationship, but you know, you have my PM box *eyebrow waggle*
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Hmmm... *thoughtful smile*
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I want to make it clear I wouldn't reject the date in and of itself, but would just adjust a few things for an 'ideal' date. I got one of those kind of dates, including a walk afterwards that could be considered a 'constitutional' and was awesome.

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There is not, or at least ought not be, a one size fits all template for a first date. Assuming one knows the lady at least well enough to be interested in asking for a 'first date' it follows (at least to me) that unless one is a complete cretin one might do well to suggest and to ask.

Peter

[dekeguy]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I'd take a dekeguy kind of date in a heart beat, but I'm old.

Define old please. I'm in my mid thirties and by no means consider myself old. My Dad is sixty six and I think he will never get 'old'. I suppose it is one's outlook on life.
Is a 'dekeguy kind of date' indicative of an 'old' approach? Maybe its because I spent and spend so much time in the UK that I come off in the way I do but I have been that way since I began dating. Just curious.

[AnotherKD]

Though I'm married, I do have a couple of stories to share from my dating days.

1) Went to dinner with a guy, it went okay. After, he asked me if I'd like to take a walk (we were by a lake at this time). I said sure. He got us in the car and drove to a graveyard and wanted to walk around there. Um... no.

2) I took the metro to a date with a guy, while he drove. At the end of the date, he said he could give me a ride home, as it was somewhat close. When I got to his car, I noticed there was a baby seat in the back. Which he had neglected to inform me about. (I also found out he was still married, but separated, and I found that out through the grapevine.)

3) I have one of those little face moles, kind of like Cindy Crawford or Nikki Taylor... just below my bottom lip and off to the side a bit. I went on a first date with one guy that kept obsessing over it and saying how cute it was. Asked if he could touch it. Completely weirded me out.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by dekeguy

Define old please. I'm in my mid thirties and by no means consider myself old. My Dad is sixty six and I think he will never get 'old'. I suppose it is one's outlook on life.
Is a 'dekeguy kind of date' indicative of an 'old' approach? Maybe its because I spent and spend so much time in the UK that I come off in the way I do but I have been that way since I began dating. Just curious.

Humblebrag?

[dekeguy]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Humblebrag?

HUMBLE?????? Arrogant perhaps, but humble?

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by dekeguy

Define old please. I'm in my mid thirties and by no means consider myself old. My Dad is sixty six and I think he will never get 'old'. I suppose it is one's outlook on life.
Is a 'dekeguy kind of date' indicative of an 'old' approach? Maybe its because I spent and spend so much time in the UK that I come off in the way I do but I have been that way since I began dating. Just curious.

I'm in my mid-40s and in a very different life phase than you, that's why I am "old" in comparison to you.

A "dekeguy kind of date" is a gentlemanly approach, in my view.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I'm in my mid-40s and in a very different life phase than you, that's why I am "old" in comparison to you.

Awwww, look at you young bucks.

I haven't read much of this thread but I just want to say that there are different levels of "bad." Also, there are longlasting and wonderful relationships bred from "bad" first dates or "bad" first interactions (for those of us who met and interacted with our significant others before the first actual date).