He, she or it? Family keeps baby's gender a secret

[DrPhil]

The first question people ask after hearing of a new arrival is usually, “Boy or girl?”

Friends and family of one Canadian couple are getting no answer to this simple inquiry. Kathy Witterick and her husband David Stocker have decided to keep baby Storm's gender a secret.

http://moms.today.com/_news/2011/05/...cret?GT1=43001

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theloo...er-under-wraps

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Awesomeness. The social construction of gender will eventually happen to this child if the child resembles traits that are able to be categorized as a girl/woman or boy/man. But, I firmly believe that gender doesn't have to happen the moment the ultrasound reveals the sex of the child, which is how most people do it.**

They aren't the first family to do this. This is extremely rare but has happened throughout history.

**These categorical distinctions are like other categorical distinctions that have been given longstanding meanings that don't disappear just because people sometimes ignore them (i.e. culture, race and ethnicity, age, etc.). People feel threatened, angry, and confused when people aren't easily identifiable; and when people choose not to identify as (insert category). That doesn't mean that people will not place people in a category and treat them accordingly. It also doesn't mean that the person will not eventually choose to identify as (insert category). It means that it isn't as easy as people like for it to be.

[PiKA2001]

We were somewhat discussing this in the Weird or Strange News Thread.

I'll say it again though here.

I don't think these parents are doing their kids any favors by doing this to them.

They say that kids receive messages from society that encourage them to fit into existing boxes, including with regard to gender. "We thought that if we delayed sharing that information, in this case hopefully, we might knock off a couple million of those messages by the time that Storm decides Storm would like to share," says Witteric

Unless these kids live in a bubble they are going to see gender played out on TV, over the internet, in Wal-Mart, etc.

Because Jazz and Kio wear pink and have long hair, they're frequently assumed to be girls, according to Stocker. He said he and Witterick don't correct people--they leave it to the kids to do it if they want to.

Seems this experiment is flawed if the kids are thought to be girls, thereby probably treated as girls by society, no?

But Stocker and Witterick's choices haven't always made life easy for their kids. Though Jazz likes dressing as a girl, he doesn't seem to want to be mistaken for one. He recently asked his mother to let the leaders of a nature center know that he's a boy. And he chose not to attend a conventional school because of the questions about his gender. Asked whether that upsets him, Jazz nodded.

And the issues seem to be creeping in already.

Why can't these parents just focus on teaching their kids that they can prefer dance lessons over football and that doesn't detract from their masculinity or make them any less of a boy. To pretend as if gender doesn't exist when it does exist and is completely natural is just off.

[knight_shadow]

I agree w/ you again, PiKA.

[BluPhire]

Agree with PiKa.

There are better ways to teach acceptance.

To me this is partly the parents using their child to make a statement, I have no problem if you use yourself, you have control over yourself and your actions.

Not when you force your views on others.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Why can't these parents just focus on teaching their kids that they can prefer dance lessons over football and that doesn't detract from their masculinity or make them any less of a boy? To pretend as if gender doesn't exist when it does exist and is completely natural is just off.

I agree. The existence of gender is not the issue. The issue = socialization/stereotyping based on that.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Seems this experiment is flawed if the kids are thought to be girls, thereby probably treated as girls by society, no?

This is no more of a social experiment than parents who choose to discipline their children differently than they were disciplined as children.

With that said, no, the way they raised their child will not be flawed just because people think the children are girls and treat them as such. These parents aren't claiming that gender mysteriously disappears just because they don't reveal the child's gender. This child may be perfectly fine identifying as A GENDER but this family wants that to not be forced on the child before the child even establishes its own personality type. I absolutely hate gendered babyshowers and gendered babyrooms. There are other forms of socialization that children undergo and gender doesn't have to be one of them. That's fine if others like gender socialization but not everyone does.

ETA: Now, the "boy" in this story wants the parents to tell people that "he is a he." That could be the "boy" making his official statement about what "he" self-identifies as; or it could be the "boy" doing this out of societal pressure--and noticing that the boys are consistently treated better than girls are. Either way, the parents need to think about letting this "boy" make "his" decision to be identified as a "boy." That "boy" may still choose to have long hair and wear pink. I doubt that. "He" will probably stop wearing pink and cut "his" hair because "he" will want to be like society expects "him" to be.

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

To pretend as if gender doesn't exist when it does exist and is completely natural is just off.

Gender is not completely natural. Much of it is socially constructed because it is different from biological sex. That's the point. But, since you think it's natural, you can understand why simply teaching your sons that they can prefer dance and still be masculine (who's to say that sons have to want to be masculine?) is not enough.

Originally Posted by BluPhire

To me this is partly the parents using their child to make a statement, I have no problem if you use yourself, you have control over yourself and your actions.

Not when you force your views on others.

All parents use their children to make statements. It's simply a matter of which statements they are making.

ETA: Regardless of the statement that the parents are making, I really hope these children aren't emotionally and mentally harmed by any of this. Children are mentally and emotionally negatively (and positively) impacted by gender everyday.

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

I agree. The existence of gender is not the issue. The issue = socialization/stereotyping based on that.

Gender wouldn't exist if it wasn't for socialization and stereotyping. It's the cliche` "chicken or the egg" thing.

I agree that that doesn't mean that the existence of gender is a "problem" just as other categorical distinctions aren't inherently "problems." But, there are plenty of people who find it problematic for various reasons.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

ETA: Now, the "boy" in this story wants the parents to tell people that "he is a he." That could be the "boy" making his official statement about what "he" self-identifies as; or it could be the "boy" doing this out of societal pressure--and noticing that the boys are consistently treated better than girls are.ther way, the parents need to think about letting this "boy" make "his" decision to be identified as a "boy." That "boy" may still choose to have long hair and wear pink. I doubt that. "He" will probably stop wearing pink and cut "his" hair because "he" will want to be like society expects "him" to be.

I honestly think he's a little young to realize that women aren't getting equal pay for equal work.

He may be distressed that he's being identified as a girl because he doesn't like people thinking he's something he is not. That doesn't mean he has already formed an opinion that "boys are better." I'm guessing he would be equally distressed if people thought he was 3 years old instead of 5.

It's a very interesting thing to try and play out but I agree with the people who said that asking a 5 year old and a 2 year old to keep that kind of secret really isn't fair to them.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I honestly think he's a little young to realize that women aren't getting equal pay for equal work.

I said "boys are consistently treated better than girls."

Boys and girls are too young to work so I'm not talking about equal pay for equal work.

Originally Posted by 33girl

He may be distressed that he's being identified as a girl because he doesn't like people thinking he's something he is not.

That's why I said "that could be the 'boy' making his official statement about what 'he' self-identifies as...the parents need to think about letting this 'boy' make 'his' decision to be identified as a 'boy.'"

We don't know what's going on. The children and the parents may not even know what's going on.

[33girl]

Well in the case of boy children vs girl children, I think that varies GREATLY depending upon the parents and many other issues.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Well in the case of boy children vs girl children, I think that varies GREATLY depending upon the parents and many other issues.

What does this mean?

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

All parents use their children to make statements. It's simply a matter of which statements they are making.

ETA: Regardless of the statement that the parents are making, I really hope these children aren't emotionally and mentally harmed by any of this. Children are mentally and emotionally negatively (and positively) impacted by gender everyday.

Like I said in another thread, just because other parents do it, still doesn't make it right. Would say the same thing.

Yes Children are mentally and emotionally impacted by gender...that's life. That's why you pray that God allowed you to be born to a family with a strong parental background that will mold you to continue to be you, regardless of what gender, race, creed etc you are born in.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by BluPhire

Like I said in another thread, just because other parents do it, still doesn't make it right.

So, you know that all parents use their children to make statements and you think it's always wrong for parents to do that. Cool.

Originally Posted by BluPhire

Yes Children are mentally and emotionally impacted by gender...that's life. That's why you pray that God allowed you to be born to a family with a strong parental background that will mold you to continue to be you, regardless of what gender, race, creed etc you are born in.

No, that's not "life" and don't use prayer and God to encourage people to be silent participants.

Only people who were raised in basements with no human contact other than their parents live their lives solely based on what their parents molded them to become. That also applies to the kids in this article. The parents know that they will be exposed to all of the complexities that life has to offer. The goal is to work towards challenging people's assumptions about "life." I have people in my life who have dedicated their personal and professional lives to challenging gender norms. It's a daily journey for them and they have been met with daily opposition--yet, they choose to keep going. I hope the kids in this article are able to choose whether to stop or keep going versus being forced to keep going.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

What does this mean?

I am refuting your claim that boys are consistently treated better than girls. If, for example, there's a family who wanted a girl desperately and got a boy instead, that boy might get treated like poo.

But you are right in your other post, I think this whole family is in danger of underthinking to the point that it becomes overthinking. (See: drinking yourself sober.)

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I am refuting your claim that boys are consistently treated better than girls. If, for example, there's a family who wanted a girl desperately and got a boy instead, that boy might get treated like poo.

I'm not talking about family dynamics.

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

So, you know that all parents use their children to make statements and you think it's always wrong for parents to do that. Cool.



No, that's not "life" and don't use prayer and God to encourage people to be silent participants.

I can and I will use God to hope that children are born to strong parents, because many children are not. If it were so, wouldn't have to worry about misguided children.

Only people who were raised in basements with no human contact other than their parents live their lives solely based on what their parents molded them to become. That also applies to the kids in this article. The parents know that they will be exposed to all of the complexities that life has to offer. The goal is to work towards challenging people's assumptions about "life." I have people in my life who have dedicated their personal and professional lives to challenging gender norms. It's a daily journey for them and they have been met with daily opposition--yet, they choose to keep going. I hope the kids in this article are able to choose whether to stop or keep going versus being forced to keep going.

Didn't say solely. Doesn't mean outside forces don't help in the molding, but if parents are not involved at all in positive molding and knowledge of self, that is a sad thing.

Nice that the parents have made this choice, I don't agree with their method because it takes the child's ability to choose which stand he or she wishes to take in regards to how he or she wishes to present themselves in this world. Now if the child was older and started showing signs of gender ambiguity and they chose to make support and see where it goes, more power. At the beginning when the only thing the baby knows right now is eat and sleep? Naw don't agree.