NPC adding new council members--do you think it could/will happen?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I don't think any of that has posed a problem for us (granted, few of our chapters have houses), nor do I think it has been a problem for Kappa Sigma or Phi Delta Theta.

I also know on many campuses, orgs are required to have some sort of local council. This gets into the relationship between local councils and national, too, though, because it's less defined for NIC than for NPC (and NPHC). For example, your school may require you to be a member of the CPH, but the CPH says you don't get a vote because you are not an NPC group. That's not a comfortable place to be.

I think I also remember hearing that there are campuses that only allow NPC/NPHC sororities.

Another thing is uniformity of policies. For example, when many orgs decided to have dry housing around 2000 (Alcohol-Free 2000, I think it was called), they went to the NPC to ask member orgs to support them. NPC agreed to move toward banning wet events in fraternity housing. Before the full ban was in force, it was tough on collegians to be in a chapter with much more restrictive rules than others. It sounds stupid and petty, but it sucks to have your pledges asking why their friends in other orgs are allowed to do X and they are not allowed to do X.

If you're fine without a council, you're fine without a council. I am just trying to answer the question of what a council does for its members. NPC, granted, is largely about recruitment and parity, but there are other things as well.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

And I'll echo k_s's .

I don't like being quoted and race-baited when nothing I said has anything to do with race. I have been talking exclusively about orgs that don't already have a council.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I also know on many campuses, orgs are required to have some sort of local council. This gets into the relationship between local councils and national, too, though, because it's less defined for NIC than for NPC (and NPHC). For example, your school may require you to be a member of the CPH, but the CPH says you don't get a vote because you are not an NPC group. That's not a comfortable place to be.

I think I also remember hearing that there are campuses that only allow NPC/NPHC sororities.

Another thing is uniformity of policies. For example, when many orgs decided to have dry housing around 2000 (Alcohol-Free 2000, I think it was called), they went to the NPC to ask member orgs to support them. NPC agreed to move toward banning wet events in fraternity housing. Before the full ban was in force, it was tough on collegians to be in a chapter with much more restrictive rules than others. It sounds stupid and petty, but it sucks to have your pledges asking why their friends in other orgs are allowed to do X and they are not allowed to do X.

If you're fine without a council, you're fine without a council. I am just trying to answer the question of what a council does for its members. NPC, granted, is largely about recruitment and parity, but there are other things as well.



I don't like being quoted and race-baited when nothing I said has anything to do with race. I have been talking exclusively about orgs that don't already have a council.

So what was your point since the NPHC clearly is a council.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

So what was your point since the NPHC clearly is a council.

I said:

"I really don't see NPHC orgs joining NPC; the more likely scenario is a group not currently with a council."

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I said:

"I really don't see NPHC orgs joining NPC; the more likely scenario is a group not currently with a council."

No. I think the comment about the "sigmadiva nonsense".

A few of us did not understand why you said this.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

And this can go straight to where different "councils" function differently, so there's a danger in applying the standards of one's own "council" to other "council." So far as I know, Kappa Sig and Phi Delta Theta are always members of their campus IFC even when they're not members of the NIC, and it's no problem. Our chapters are members of IFC on those campuses where that works best for us and not on other campuses.

I've certainly never suggested that umbrella organizations do not have great benefit for their members and the Greek system in general. I was merely responding to the three specific examples you gave --puchasing insurance, owning houses and establishing relationships with universities -- in the statement of yours that I quoted.

Well, in fairness, this is an NPC thread :-)

Do you not feel that the councils help with the things I've mentioned? I've just given specific examples of how they help with university relationships, and if you want specifics on housing, I'm happy to get into details.

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

No. I think the comment about the "sigmadiva nonsense".

A few of us did not understand why you said this.

You quoted and responded to a post of mine in a manner that indicated you did not read the original post. I never said anything about NPHC orgs joining NPC orgs. In fact, I said exactly the opposite.

I think suggesting that NPHC orgs should want to join NPC (as posters ahead of me started to do) is about as logical as suggesting that NPC orgs should want to join the NPHC.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Well, in fairness, this is an NPC thread :-)

Touché.

Although it's also about non-NPC sororities attempting to come into the NPC, so some consideration of other ways of doing things may come into play. And when the discussion turns to "councils," then that does widen the scope.

Do you not feel that the councils help with the things I've mentioned? I've just given specific examples of how they help with university relationships, and if you want specifics on housing, I'm happy to get into details.

As a general across-the-board rule, no I don't think that umbrella organizations necessarily help with the three things you mentioned. I don't think we noticed any difference as to those three things when we decided to leave the umbrella organization we used to belong to. Frankly, as far as I can tell, we haven't noticed any difference at all.

With the first two (insurance and housing), I think the size, resources and bargaining power of the specific organization are much more important. (And as mentioned, housing isn't really an issue for many orgs.) As for university relations, my experience is that colleges and universities that have a concern (1) want orgs to be accountable to a national entity and (2) find a local council (sometimes an inappropriate one*) to stick the chapter in.


* The example you gave of a non-NPC org being forced by the university to join the CPH would be an example of inappropriate. That's the school trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. If it wants every org to be part of a campus coucil, then it needs to make sure there's a campus council appropriate for every org, even if that means IFC, CPH, NPHC and "other."

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Touché.

Although it's also about non-NPC sororities attempting to come into the NPC, so some consideration of other ways of doing things may come into play. And when the discussion turns to "councils," then that does widen the scope.

As a general across-the-board rule, no I don't think that umbrella organizations necessarily help with the three things you mentioned. I don't think we noticed any difference as to those three things when we decided to leave the umbrella organization we used to belong to. Frankly, as far as I can tell, we haven't noticed any difference at all.

With the first two (insurance and housing), I think the size, resources and bargaining power of the specific organization are much more important. (And as mentioned, housing isn't really an issue for many orgs.) As for university relations, my experience is that colleges and universities that have a concern (1) want orgs to be accountable to a national entity and (2) find a local council (sometimes an inappropriate one) to stick the chapter in.

w/r/t insurance, I was thinking of FIPG. IIRC, there are no members of FIPG that are not also NPC/NIC.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I also know on many campuses, orgs are required to have some sort of local council. This gets into the relationship between local councils and national, too, though, because it's less defined for NIC than for NPC (and NPHC). For example, your school may require you to be a member of the CPH, but the CPH says you don't get a vote because you are not an NPC group. That's not a comfortable place to be.

And this can go straight to where different "councils" function differently, so there's a danger in applying the standards of one's own "council" to other "council." So far as I know, Kappa Sig and Phi Delta Theta are always members of their campus IFC even when they're not members of the NIC, and it's no problem. Our chapters are members of IFC on those campuses where that works best for us and not on other campuses.

I've certainly never suggested that umbrella organizations do not have great benefit for their members and the Greek system in general. I was merely responding to the three specific examples you gave --puchasing insurance, owning houses and establishing relationships with universities -- in the statement of yours that I quoted.

I don't like being quoted and race-baited when nothing I said has anything to do with race. I have been talking exclusively about orgs that don't already have a council.

I don't see anywhere that anyone race-baited you or quoted you in a context related to race. But if that's what you perceive is happening, then just say so instead of dismissing someone else's "nonsense."