NPC adding new council members--do you think it could/will happen?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by OHNOITSJESS

I think since (correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure i read it somewhere) that NPC groups can't discriminate based on anything but gender, it would force us to broaden our focus.

No.

NPC does not have any say in the membership policies of its member organizations, besides the minimum criteria (women at 4-year degree-granting institutions). In fact, the MOI has many rules about what NPC/CPH can not do w/r/t each chapter's operations.

As far as sigmadiva's nonsense, the NPHC orgs have an established national council that meets their needs. They have no incentive to join the NPC.

Groups without an established council (and I had no idea there was a council for professional fraternities, so thanks for that info, ohnoitsjess) may find it more difficult to purchase insurance, finance housing, and establish relationships with universities.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

As far as sigmadiva's nonsense

[sigmadiva]

^^^^

Yeah, me too!

Maybe because I dared to mention what no one really wanted to come out and say - it is also very much rooted in a racial issue.

There is nothing wrong in admitting that.

[Munchkin03]

I don't shy away from discussing racial issues but I'm not sure how much the remote possibility of an NPHC/NPC merger is all about race--other than NPHC chapters tend to be predominantly black while NPC groups historically have been predominantly white but change from region to region).

Recruitment styles, housing (yes, I know that a few NPHC chapters are housed), and the NPC's emphasis on women are three much more important factors that make the councils incompatible.

With the NIC, it makes more sense for the men's groups to share one umbrella because there's less emphasis on uniformity in recruitment, among other things, than there is for the NPC.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I don't shy away from discussing racial issues but I'm not sure how much the remote possibility of an NPHC/NPC merger is all about race --other than NPHC chapters tend to be predominantly black while NPC groups historically have been predominantly white but change from region to region).

Recruitment styles, housing (yes, I know that a few NPHC chapters are housed), and the NPC's emphasis on women are three much more important factors that make the councils incompatible.

With the NIC, it makes more sense for the men's groups to share one umbrella because there's less emphasis on uniformity in recruitment, among other things, than there is for the NPC.

Okay, let's say 98% about race.

To be blunt, I really don't see those Black members who were around before integration and during the Civil Rights Era wanting to subject themselves to a white persons way of doing things.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Okay, let's say 98% about race.

To be blunt, I really don't see those Black members who were around before integration and during the Civil Rights Era wanting to subject themselves to a white persons way of doing things.

Still a membership selection/tradition issue, not a race one.

Y'all know I'm always up for a good race war, but this isn't it.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Still a membership selection/tradition issue, not a race one.

Y'all know I'm always up for a good race war, but this isn't it.

Co-sign!

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Still a membership selection/tradition issue, not a race one.

Y'all know I'm always up for a good race war, but this isn't it.

I'm not trying to make it a race war. I'm just explaining a reason as to why the NPHC sororities would not want to join the NPC.

And if you push the interpretation one could argue that "tradition" is just another way of saying "historical". And historically speaking, the NPC and NPHC are /were separated by race.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

^^^^

Yeah, me too!

Maybe because I dared to mention what no one really wanted to come out and say - it is also very much rooted in a racial issue.

There is nothing wrong in admitting that.

While I'm not sure where the "nonsense" comment came from, I just don't think it's as rooted in race as you want to make it seem.

It has much more to do with membership selection and policies. While I hope my daughter dreams of being an ASA one day, if she goes to a school without ASA, or doesn't like that particular chapter, I'd encourage her to pick a different group, and certainly would not tell her that she should wait and try to join as an alumna later. NPHC aspirants are encouraged to research and pick their org based on a national level - NPC is, for the most part, chapter focused. Yes, there are places where there would be much pearl clutching if a legacy doesn't join her legacy chapter, they are fewer and far between.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

While I'm not sure where the "nonsense" comment came from, I just don't think it's as rooted in race as you want to make it seem.

It has much more to do with membership selection and policies. While I hope my daughter dreams of being an ASA one day, if she goes to a school without ASA, or doesn't like that particular chapter, I'd encourage her to pick a different group, and certainly would not tell her that she should wait and try to join as an alumna later. NPHC aspirants are encouraged to research and pick their org based on a national level - NPC is, for the most part, chapter focused. Yes, there are places where there would be much pearl clutching if a legacy doesn't join her legacy chapter, they are fewer and far between.

I beg to differ.

One of the important foundations of the NPHC orgs at their founding was to provide service and uplift the Black race when certain social and economic needs were not being met by the majority. As hard as it seems today to believe that since most people see the NPHC being all about stepping and being on-line, really the focus of the orgs is not that.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Groups without an established council (and I had no idea there was a council for professional fraternities, so thanks for that info, ohnoitsjess) may find it more difficult to purchase insurance, finance housing, and establish relationships with universities.

I don't think any of that has posed a problem for us (granted, few of our chapters have houses), nor do I think it has been a problem for Kappa Sigma or Phi Delta Theta.

"Council" might be a misleading word, I think. As is clear from this discussion and others we've had at GC, different umbrella organizations -- NIC, NPC. NPHC, PFA, etc. -- can function very differently from each other, both in terms of what they provide their members and what they expect/require of their members.

And I'll echo k_s's .

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I don't think any of that has posed a problem for us (granted, few of our chapters have houses), nor do I think it has been a problem for Kappa Sigma or Phi Delta Theta.

I also know on many campuses, orgs are required to have some sort of local council. This gets into the relationship between local councils and national, too, though, because it's less defined for NIC than for NPC (and NPHC). For example, your school may require you to be a member of the CPH, but the CPH says you don't get a vote because you are not an NPC group. That's not a comfortable place to be.

I think I also remember hearing that there are campuses that only allow NPC/NPHC sororities.

Another thing is uniformity of policies. For example, when many orgs decided to have dry housing around 2000 (Alcohol-Free 2000, I think it was called), they went to the NPC to ask member orgs to support them. NPC agreed to move toward banning wet events in fraternity housing. Before the full ban was in force, it was tough on collegians to be in a chapter with much more restrictive rules than others. It sounds stupid and petty, but it sucks to have your pledges asking why their friends in other orgs are allowed to do X and they are not allowed to do X.

If you're fine without a council, you're fine without a council. I am just trying to answer the question of what a council does for its members. NPC, granted, is largely about recruitment and parity, but there are other things as well.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

And I'll echo k_s's .

I don't like being quoted and race-baited when nothing I said has anything to do with race. I have been talking exclusively about orgs that don't already have a council.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I also know on many campuses, orgs are required to have some sort of local council. This gets into the relationship between local councils and national, too, though, because it's less defined for NIC than for NPC (and NPHC). For example, your school may require you to be a member of the CPH, but the CPH says you don't get a vote because you are not an NPC group. That's not a comfortable place to be.

I think I also remember hearing that there are campuses that only allow NPC/NPHC sororities.

Another thing is uniformity of policies. For example, when many orgs decided to have dry housing around 2000 (Alcohol-Free 2000, I think it was called), they went to the NPC to ask member orgs to support them. NPC agreed to move toward banning wet events in fraternity housing. Before the full ban was in force, it was tough on collegians to be in a chapter with much more restrictive rules than others. It sounds stupid and petty, but it sucks to have your pledges asking why their friends in other orgs are allowed to do X and they are not allowed to do X.

If you're fine without a council, you're fine without a council. I am just trying to answer the question of what a council does for its members. NPC, granted, is largely about recruitment and parity, but there are other things as well.



I don't like being quoted and race-baited when nothing I said has anything to do with race. I have been talking exclusively about orgs that don't already have a council.

So what was your point since the NPHC clearly is a council.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

So what was your point since the NPHC clearly is a council.

I said:

"I really don't see NPHC orgs joining NPC; the more likely scenario is a group not currently with a council."

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I said:

"I really don't see NPHC orgs joining NPC; the more likely scenario is a group not currently with a council."

No. I think the comment about the "sigmadiva nonsense".

A few of us did not understand why you said this.