Protests In Wisconsin

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

Oh yeah, I remember that the Texas Eleven were fleeing because of redistricting. That is perfectly excusable as they were protecting their own jobs. In NC the Democrats have controlled both or at least one chamber of Congress for over 110 years. They have controlled the redistricting during all this time. Never once have the Republican members of the Senate or House fled the state to keep the Democrats from drawing new districts. This year the Republicans have both Chambers and will redraw the lines. We will see if the Democrats flee the state. Should be interesting.

These Democrats are protecting people's jobs, too. Actually, it might be more "noble" of them considering that they're not protecting their own jobs, but those of their constituents. WHY a lot of people think it's a legitimate tactic, at this point, is because they believe there is simply too much at stake here to let the bill pass and have it killed in the courts.

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by agzg

These Democrats are protecting people's jobs, too. Actually, it might be more "noble" of them considering that they're not protecting their own jobs, but those of their constituents. WHY a lot of people think it's a legitimate tactic, at this point, is because they believe there is simply too much at stake here to let the bill pass and have it killed in the courts.

If I am not mistaken the Governor of WI is suggesting these cutbacks in order to keep from laying off teachers. The whole thing is that the Unions feel threatened. The hell with the kids that these teachers were hired to teach. It is all about the teacher and the power of the Union. I would fire them all and hire from the ranks of the numerous college grads who are underemployed/unemployed.

[AOEforme]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

If I am not mistaken the Governor of WI is suggesting these cutbacks in order to keep from laying off teachers. The whole thing is that the Unions feel threatened. The hell with the kids that these teachers were hired to teach. It is all about the teacher and the power of the Union. I would fire them all and hire from the ranks of the numerous college grads who are underemployed/unemployed.

Please see the financial report linked above. There is no need to lay off teachers if other unnecessary programs pushed through in the last few weeks had not been pulled.

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by AOEforme

Please see the financial report linked above. There is no need to lay off teachers if other unnecessary programs pushed through in the last few weeks had not been pulled.

I read the link and it addresses the fiscal year 2011. The projection is for a 3.6 billion budget shortfall for the next 2 years. Read this:

http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/...n_state_budget#

[AOEforme]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

I read the link and it addresses the fiscal year 2011. The projection is for a 3.6 billion budget shortfall for the next 2 years. Read this:

http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/...n_state_budget#

Correct. The budget shortfall is for the next 2 years, because of the additional $140 million/year in highway costs, $68 billion in employer benefits, and other programs Walker pushed through.

If he wanted to fix the fiscal crisis, he SHOULD NOT have caused it.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by AOEforme

Correct. The budget shortfall is for the next 2 years, because of the additional $140 million/year in highway costs, $68 billion in employer benefits, and other programs Walker pushed through.

If he wanted to fix the fiscal crisis, he SHOULD NOT have caused it.

It's the Republican way. The rich get richer, the middle class and poor get poorer. And then that same person will gripe about how other countries are beating us out in math and science test scores. Well of course, because you aren't going to attract the brightest and best to teaching jobs if you aren't paying them enough to live on.

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by AGDee

It's the Republican way. The rich get richer, the middle class and poor get poorer. And then that same person will gripe about how other countries are beating us out in math and science test scores. Well of course, because you aren't going to attract the brightest and best to teaching jobs if you aren't paying them enough to live on.

A typical teacher in Milwaukee makes ~$60K in salary with another ~40K in benefits thrown in.

My daughter who teaches in NC makes ~$35K in salary and another $25K in benefits. She lives in one of the most expensive areas of NC which is very comparable to Milwaukee.

I have been to WI numerous times on business trips and the standard of living there vs. NC is not very different.

The teachers in WI are not the "poor" by any stretch of the imagination.

I suggest all those out there who say not enough taxes are taken from the "rich" make a pledge to file only 1040 EZ so they pay the maximum amount of taxes without the deductions offered on the long form. That way you can pay your fair share before you take from others. After that is done by the Gates, the Kennedy's, the Heinz-Kerry's, the Pelosi's, the Boxer's, the Huffington's, the Clinton's, the Gore's of the land I will no longer call them hypocrites. Don't tell me I am not paying enough when loopholes are there and used by these libs to their own benefit. Time for all these people to put their money where their mouth is. Maybe a check off box is needed on the forms that allows only the maximum taxes to be calculated and paid. This should help the poor and soothe the consciences of the liberals. But I bet nobody would check off the box.

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by AOEforme

Correct. The budget shortfall is for the next 2 years, because of the additional $140 million/year in highway costs, $68 billion in employer benefits, and other programs Walker pushed through.

If he wanted to fix the fiscal crisis, he SHOULD NOT have caused it.

He caused this all by himself? He has been in office 6 weeks.

Are you sure about that $68 B number? I have not seen that one.

You do know who ultimately pays the taxes put on corporations or businesses don't you? They are passed on to the consumer through the price of the goods or services.

Cutting the tax burden on businesses ultimately allows them to better compete in the marketplace and may lead to lower prices and higher employment.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

He caused this all by himself? He has been in office 6 weeks.

RIGHT?

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

If I am not mistaken the Governor of WI is suggesting these cutbacks in order to keep from laying off teachers. The whole thing is that the Unions feel threatened. The hell with the kids that these teachers were hired to teach. It is all about the teacher and the power of the Union. I would fire them all and hire from the ranks of the numerous college grads who are underemployed/unemployed.

You are, actually. He initially told us his alternative was dropping 200,000 kids from Meidcaid, but that's not exactly legal. He then acknowledged he "didn't check before making the statement."

According to the State's Fiscal Bureau, Wisconsin was actually supposed to have a surplus. Read the memo here.

Walker&Co then gave away hundreds of millions of dollars in tax breaks, effectively creating a crisis.

He then proposed taking away the rights of union workers and called it "budget repair," despite the obvious disconnect. I mean, if he wants to bust the unions he should just say that; instead, he's pretending it's about the budget.

[AOEforme]

Originally Posted by ThetaDancer

He then proposed taking away the rights of union workers and called it "budget repair" despite the obvious disconnect. I mean, if he wants to bust the unions he should just say that; instead, he's pretending it's about the budget.

Wasn't there an article about how someone proposed to keep the cut in benefits but allow for collective barganing and union dues to remain, and he shot them down, saying it wouldn't save the crisis?

I wish I could find that article: it really speaks to what is going on with this bill.

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by AOEforme

Wasn't there an article about how someone proposed to keep the cut in benefits but allow for collective barganing and union dues to remain, and he shot them down, saying it wouldn't save the crisis?

I wish I could find that article: it really speaks to what is going on with this bill.

Ahh I think I know the one you're talking about but I can't find it.

There's an article in the Times today that talks about this

Governor Walker, in an interview, said he hoped that by “pushing the envelope” and setting an aggressive example, Wisconsin might inspire more states to curb the power of unions. “In that regard, I hope I’m inspiration just as much as others are an inspiration to me,” he said.

And yesterday union officials said they would agree to all of Walker's financial proposals as long as they could keep their rights, but he said no.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

If I am not mistaken the Governor of WI is suggesting these cutbacks in order to keep from laying off teachers. The whole thing is that the Unions feel threatened. The hell with the kids that these teachers were hired to teach. It is all about the teacher and the power of the Union. I would fire them all and hire from the ranks of the numerous college grads who are underemployed/unemployed.

This is traditionally what happens with unions (and no wonder it makes no sense to form a union). The unions begin to price themselves out of the market which results in a) layoffs or b) unprofitability which will ultimately result in layoffs...making the unions self-destructive at best. Now, the government doesn't have to worry about profitability, which means public debt is at stake.