Is hazing the best way?

[djpsk21]

DrPhil....sarcasm not appreciated. I am really trying to make a difference here and be an agent of change. If you can't be constructive, then please don't waste my time by replying

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by djpsk21

DrPhil....sarcasm not appreciated. I am really trying to make a difference here and be an agent of change. If you can't be constructive, then please don't waste my time by replying

Or you can not waste your time by reading and replying.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by djpsk21

DrPhil....sarcasm not appreciated. I am really trying to make a difference here and be an agent of change. If you can't be constructive, then please don't waste my time by replying

What a busy time you have when my reply is wasting it. Don't be so easily knocked off of your horse. You will find it very difficult to transition from rhetoric to change.

[lucgreek]

I'd rather not see this turn off topic into a bunch of useless/sarcastic replies, since there is a lot of potential for the thread, so I'll try to steer the ship back before we head into the iceberg:

OP: Are you the only one who wants change? Get a group of other like-minded people together before telling your chapter why they need to change. If you have a group of people already supporting you, it will make it harder for people ingrained in the hazing mindset to say, "Well that's only one person in the chapter, who cares?"

If your brothers are still all for hazing, you should speak with your advisor and regional director.

Like other have said, change needs to happen slowly otherwise your chapter may implode on itself. But if the hazing is incredibly risky/potential for bodily harm or death/risk for your charter to be taken away, you need to get rid of that stuff ASAP.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

If your brothers are still all for hazing, you should speak with your advisor and regional director.

Yes, do this and assure being socially ostracized for not only your remaining years in college, but pretty much any alumni event you attend in the future.

[lucgreek]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Yes, do this and assure being socially ostracized for not only your remaining years in college, but pretty much any alumni event you attend in the future.

Or stay quiet, something bad happens, then find yourself and the chapter facing charges and a civil suit ($$$). Then you're kicked out of the fraternity and probably your school.

Then again, I assume the worst when it comes to hazing. The OP said it's "not so bad," but I have no idea what they are cocmparing it to. "Not so bad" could be tossing peanuts at pledges when they mess up the greek alphabet, "not so bad" could be paddling. I only recommend going to your regional director if it's a substantial issue. (Like, involving bodily harm vs. Having pledges clean up after a party).

If you approach the situation from a "hey, I'm concerned we could get into trouble and lose our charter" standpoint, you'll be much better than approaching from a "you all are hazing and should be punished for it" standpoint.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Yes, do this and assure being socially ostracized for not only your remaining years in college, but pretty much any alumni event you attend in the future.

That depends. There are different ways to go about speaking to an advisor or regional director without telling them that hazing is an issue. I have seen it happen a few times where concerned members reach out by saying that they are looking for membership ideas that highlight the many positives of sisterhood/brotherhood.

Afterall, his taking the basic ideas (these ideas are extremely basic) from this thread and trying to incorporate them could also lead to his being ignored, laughed at, ostracized, etc. Who wants to be around a sister or brother who is telling them that they are doing it all wrong? Who wants to be around a sister or brother who is acting as though he or she has figured it all out?

What the OP is trying to do can fail and so can speaking with a formal or informal organizational representative. Since the OP came to GC seeking advice, I would never advise someone beyond telling them to speak to their GLO's representative (since speaking to the chapter has obviously not worked yet).

[lucgreek]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

That depends. There are different ways to go about speaking to an advisor or regional director without telling them that hazing is an issue. I have seen it happen a few times where concerned members reach out by saying that they are looking for membership ideas that highlight the many positives of sisterhood/brotherhood.

Agreed. It's all in the approach. Coming across as 'holier than thou' addressing hazing issues in the chapter will undoubtedly get you laughed out of the chapter room. Coming across as concerned might bring more people out of the woodwork and win you some support.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

Agreed. It's all in the approach. Coming across as 'holier than thou' addressing hazing issues in the chapter will undoubtedly get you laughed out of the chapter room. Coming across as concerned might bring more people out of the woodwork and win you some support.

To be honest with you, the OP can easily come across as holier than thou and probably even quick to intolerance and anger when chapter members defend the existing new member program. Even saying that you (in general) are trying to change a new member program automatically gets a negative response from many people. Then saying it isn't "so bad as it could be" just seems like you're (in general) contradicting yourself as though you aren't too sure of what the issues are.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

I'd rather not see this turn off topic into a bunch of useless/sarcastic replies, since there is a lot of potential for the thread, so I'll try to steer the ship back before we head into the iceberg:

And you could've typed your post without this.

This thread is practically useless and threads like this encourage people to come to GC for things that aren't GC material. The OP has a national organization with a national standard that most likely provides assistance with how to address such issues. Yet, he is on GC for advice which is never a good idea. Either way, he needs to understand that there are and will always be people who believe that hazing is the best answer. If my saying that sarcastically gets a response then he has a difficult road ahead of him. He has yet to show his brothers that hazing isn't the best answer because he is still searching for even the most basic advice on how to do so. His difficulty is linked to the fact that it isn't solely his job to show his brothers that hazing isn't the best answer. He needs to search for the most basic answers to this question outside of GC and get assistance outside of GC by contacting representatives from his organization.

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by lucgreek

I'd rather not see this turn off topic into a bunch of useless/sarcastic replies, since there is a lot of potential for the thread, so I'll try to steer the ship back before we head into the iceberg:

Too late.

This very response opens the door to useless and sarcastic replies. Like I told the OP when he went all huffy over what Dr Phil said, ignore it.

That separates folks that are serious for answers to folks who just want to start threads so they can be center of attention.