Feds to file lawsuit over Arizona immigration law

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by starang21

people will react and villanize who and what they want to villanize. someone might view armed robbery as not a big deal, but will view jay walking as a big deal. and that's their prerogative and their issue.

just because folks don't make a big deal about speeding, drunk driving, or drug use and choose to make a big deal about illegal immigration, doesn't mean that the former offences aren't a big deal to someone else.

i comment on illegal immigration. we're in an illegal immigration thread. does that mean that i should have the same level of opinion in a thread regarding tax evasion? no.

i don't know what about the immigration process that needs reforming. and no one has been able to say what's wrong with the process. just because folks bypass the process, doesn't mean the process is wrong.

The point is not that we're not taking speeding seriously in this thread. Or tax evasion. Or anything. It's not about being "soft on crime" or "not caring about illegal immigration." It's about not dehumanizing people, or villianizing to the point where you write laws based on fear instead of facts. I don't know how you're continuing to miss this point.

This is what is wrong with the process: http://lafinjack.net/images/random/immigration.jpg

It takes decades, it is incredibly expensive, and nearly impossible if you're the average person from Mexico. In the meantime, it's cheaper to pay a coyote, even if it's more dangerous, and you can find work here. If you don't fix both sides, the difficulty getting in as well as the incentives to come illegally, you won't solve the problem.

If you don't know what's wrong with immigration then you're probably not going to be able to talk about the issue of illegal immigration on any level other than "throw them out" because you're lacking the basic understanding of why they're here illegally in the first place. Most illegal immigrants aren't rampant law breakers and wouldn't just be kicking around the US with a fake ID if they had other options.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

The point is not It's about not dehumanizing people, or villianizing to the point where you write laws based on fear instead of facts.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

She's saying that treating illegal or undocumented immigrants as universally criminals and nigh subhuman is the problem.

really?

people will villanize what they want to villanize. and people are entitled to villanize who and what they want. whatever they're passionate about. and just because (by your definition of dehumanization), them villanizing people is dehumanizing them, doesn't mean that it's they (by their definition of dehumanizing) think they're dehumanizing them. your definition of dehumanizing is likely different from my definition of dehumanizing.

so the us doesn't want unskilled labor. it wants people with talent. ok, so?

i understand why they're here illegally. does that mean i think the immigration process is flawed? no.

is it the process's fault that illegal immigrants choose to bypass it? no.

i also understand the process which one undertakes to become an immigrant. does that mean i think there's something wrong with the process? no.

me thinking there's nothing wrong with the process doesn't mean i don't understand the process.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by starang21

really?

people will villanize what they want to villanize. and people are entitled to villanize who and what they want. whatever they're passionate about. and just because (by your definition of dehumanization), them villanizing people is dehumanizing them, doesn't mean that it's they (by their definition of dehumanizing) think they're dehumanizing them. your definition of dehumanizing is likely different from my definition of dehumanizing.

so the us doesn't want unskilled labor. it wants people with talent. ok, so?

i understand why they're here illegally. does that mean i think the immigration process is flawed? no.

is it the process's fault that illegal immigrants choose to bypass it? no.

i also understand the process which one undertakes to become an immigrant. does that mean i think there's something wrong with the process? no.

me thinking there's nothing wrong with the process doesn't mean i don't understand the process.

Yes, and this is what makes people ignorant. You are basically admitting to choosing to villainize a group of people just because you want to villainize them. There is a huge difference between wanting more skilled people in this country and deciding that the people who have come to this country illegally looking for a better life for their families are subhuman or beneath you. That makes you elitist and a bad person.