How Moms Should Treat Their Legacy Daughters

[33girl]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

I was also thinking that maybe this mom IS well-informed and thus knows that the campus in question has guaranteed bidding for PNMs who maximize their options. Maybe she is counting on her daughter being cut by all of the other houses since she won't have recs and will be at a disadvantage... and then her legacy chapter will have to take her in the end if they are the only one left?

The only guarantee is "if you go back to everywhere you're invited to you'll get a bid." You're not guaranteed to get those invites to begin with. If the chapter has 359 legacies they like more than her, she could be SOL.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by 33girl

The only guarantee is "if you go back to everywhere you're invited to you'll get a bid." You're not guaranteed to get those invites to begin with. If the chapter has 359 legacies they like more than her, she could be SOL.

Very true... just trying to get inside the mom's head.

I might try to bring it up with the mom if I happen to run into her, but I don't want to call her out of the blue to tell her I think she's delusional (not in so many words, but you know what I mean). I worry that she'll think I'm just trying to tell her that I know her alma mater better than she does (which, clearly, I do).

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

Very true... just trying to get inside the mom's head.

I might try to bring it up with the mom if I happen to run into her, but I don't want to call her out of the blue to tell her I think she's delusional (not in so many words, but you know what I mean). I worry that she'll think I'm just trying to tell her that I know her alma mater better than she does (which, clearly, I do).

Perhaps you could very innocently call the mother and say you'd be so happy to sponsor Susie to DG if she doesn't already have a DG one and ask her to send you the girl's resume. I doubt she'll tell you that she's not letting the girl get any other recs outside her legacy group!

[KSUViolet06]

In reading this story, it actually doesn't sound like she is deliberately trying to sabotage her.

It sounds like she genuinely thinks that her daughter doesn't need any other recs because she's guaranteed a bid to her legacy house. You say she's out of state. Heck, where mom was initiated, it may be true that all legacies got bids.

Every now and then, I'll meet a PNM who has decided to go out of state and rush somewhere competitive. Mom usually attended a school in Ohio that wasn't competitive at all (like Akron, BG, Kent, etc.) She'll think the same thing ("oh she'll probably not need that extra stuff because all legacies get bids.") and won't bother securing recs.

I usually refer those moms to the larger SEC recruitment threads (like the Bama or Auburn threads) where moms are coming on in droves lamenting the fact that their daughters were cut as legacies (some as direct legacies to that chapter).

This is why it's SO important for our orgs to EDUCATE alumnae about not only the legacy policy, but also about how recruitment has changed since they were active, that there are INCREASED numbers of legacies at some schools, and that what used to be a sure thing, often isn't anymore.

I recall reading someone on here that an NPC group published a magazine article on this topic not too long ago that bascially said that while we would love for every legacy to pledge XYZ, that doesn't always happen and that parents need to be prepared for that and support their child in her decisions.

At Convention, I met many women who are legacies. I met one collegian who was recently initiated at our newest chapter (High Point). She was pinned by her mother at Initiation with her grandma's badge and her 2 sisters present. That was a great story and I definitely see the value of legacies.

I also had the opportunity to meet older alumnae whose daughters represent a variety of NPC orgs--one woman had 5 daughters and each of them joined a different org! So they do share the bond of being Panhellenicc women and support their daughter's efforts in their chapters.

I don't have kids, but I have always felt that I'd rather see my kid happy as XYZ, than miserable as a Sigma (because I pressured her to join).

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

In reading this story, it actually doesn't sound like she is deliberately trying to sabotage her.

It sounds like she genuinely thinks that her daughter doesn't need any other recs because she's guaranteed a bid to her legacy house. You say she's out of state. Heck, where mom was initiated, it may be true that all legacies got bids.

Even if that is the case, the fact that what was right for her 20-30 years ago might not be right for her daughter hasn't even crossed the selfish heffa's mind. This is along the same lines of the moms with weight problems who make their (perfectly healthy and thin) daughters crazy about their weight - although I think that one's a little less deliberate.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Heck, where mom was initiated, it may be true that all legacies got bids.

She said in the OP that daughter is going to mom's school, so the chapter in question at the SEC school is mom's chapter.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

She said in the OP that daughter is going to mom's school, so the chapter in question at the SEC school is mom's chapter.

True but it may be more a matter of "when" then.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

This is why it's SO important for our orgs to EDUCATE alumnae about not only the legacy policy, but also about how recruitment has changed since they were active, that there are INCREASED numbers of legacies at some schools, and that what used to be a sure thing, often isn't anymore.

It is definitely important to educate our alumnae.

Having said that, however, the women who would benefit most from such education are exactly those women who would be least likely to be receptive to such education. (Generalizing here, obviously.) They're the women who aren't very active in alumnae groups; the ones who don't communicate regularly with current collegians; the ones who never crack open their orgs' magazines; etc... They're also the ones who expect their daughters to be given the royal treatment, and are the ones who are most upset when their daughters are cut form their legacy houses.

So yes, we absolutely need to educate. It probably won't reach those alumnae who need it most, though. (And, for some reason, I believe the mom discussed in the OP would fall into this category.)

[Barbie's_Rush]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

It is definitely important to educate our alumnae.

Having said that, however, the women who would benefit most from such education are exactly those women who would be least likely to be receptive to such education. (Generalizing here, obviously.) They're the women who aren't very active in alumnae groups; the ones who don't communicate regularly with current collegians; the ones who never crack open their orgs' magazines; etc... They're also the ones who expect their daughters to be given the royal treatment, and are the ones who are most upset when their daughters are cut form their legacy houses.

So yes, we absolutely need to educate. It probably won't reach those alumnae who need it most, though. (And, for some reason, I believe the mom discussed in the OP would fall into this category.)

Speaking from my experience, our issues were almost always with Helga VonHeli, the alumna who has essentially forgotten she's a Pi Pi Pi and completely abandoned every alumna responsibility until we cut her pretty perfect princess.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

So yes, we absolutely need to educate. It probably won't reach those alumnae who need it most, though. (And, for some reason, I believe the mom discussed in the OP would fall into this category.)

Not only that, I'd bet that some of these moms were the ones who (as collegians) bitched the loudest about "have-to-take" double legacies and treated them like crap. It's amazing how it's different when it has to do with you or someone you love.

[AZ-AlphaXi]

Interesting statistic from the Auburn recruitment online handbook:

In 2009, 714 of our 1114 potential members were legacies. But, only 220 joined a sorority they are a legacy to. The rest joined other groups or did not join at all. Legacies do not have any particular advantage when it comes to receiving bids.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by AZ-AlphaXi

Interesting statistic from the Auburn recruitment online handbook:

In 2009, 714 of our 1114 potential members were legacies. But, only 220 joined a sorority they are a legacy to. The rest joined other groups or did not join at all. Legacies do not have any particular advantage when it comes to receiving bids.

One needs to be careful in interpreting these statistics. All that we really know from the above statistics is that 30.81% of the legacies joined their legacy chapter.

1. It is unknown how many of the legacies that did not join their legacy group were released by the legacy chapter or if they - the PNM - released their legacy chapter.

2. It is unknown how many of the 220 legacies that did join their legacy sorority would not have been extended a bid to any other chapter. In other words, had they not been legacies, they may not have received *any* bid. To be crude about it, being a legacy was the main reason behind their receiving their bid.

3. It is unknown how many of the legacies that joined a different sorority were extend a bid simply because they were a legacy to any sorority. In other words, XYZ chapter might feel that an ABC legacy is better than a PNM that is not a legacy to any group.

4. It is unknown how many in-house legacies were extended a bid to their legacy versus those legacies that were not in-house. As has been noted, not all legacies may be equal, so being in-house might have been an advantage. Or not.

Again, these are all hypothetical, but the bottom line is that we really don't really know how a PNM's legacy effected there recruitment.

So perhaps the likelihood that legacies may not have a particular advantage to receive/accept a bid to their legacy chapter, just being a NPC legacy may still have been an advantage overall. Or not.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by TSteven

One needs to be careful in interpreting these statistics. All that we really know from the above statistics is that 30.81% of the legacies joined their legacy chapter.

1. It is unknown how many of the legacies that did not join their legacy group were released by the legacy chapter or if they - the PNM - released their legacy chapter.

2. It is unknown how many of the 220 legacies that did join their legacy sorority would not have been extended a bid to any other chapter. In other words, had they not been legacies, they may not have received *any* bid. To be crude about it, being a legacy was the main reason behind their receiving their bid.

3. It is unknown how many of the legacies that joined a different sorority were extend a bid simply because they were a legacy to any sorority. In other words, XYZ chapter might feel that an ABC legacy is better than a PNM that is not a legacy to any group.

4. It is unknown how many in-house legacies were extended a bid to their legacy versus those legacies that were not in-house. As has been noted, not all legacies may be equal, so being in-house might have been an advantage. Or not.

Again, these are all hypothetical, but the bottom line is that we really don't really know how a PNM's legacy effected there recruitment.

So perhaps the likelihood that legacies may not have a particular advantage to receive/accept a bid to their legacy chapter, just being a NPC legacy may still have been an advantage overall. Or not.

Not to mention there is no mention of PNMs with multiple legacies, which also skews the numbers.

[BAMA2]

Carnation--

Perhaps you can give her this statistic. The year my daughter went through rush at Alabama (2008) there were over 200 legacies to the chapter she pledged. Obviously, there was no way the chapter could take all the legacies in a pledge class even if they wanted to! I believe around 50 of the legacies actually ended up in her pledge class. This left a lot of unhappy alums but the members were in a no win situation.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by Titchou

#3: In my 47 years of membership in an NPC GLO I have never heard of such!

That may be true, but unless you (general you) are at all the other GLOs' membership selection vote, you won't know why or how *they* voted.

Perhaps it is a Southern fraternity thing, but knowing that a rushee is a legacy ("His Daddy is a Bama XYZ while his Momma is an Ole Miss ABC") may carry some weight in membership selection. Whether it is right or wrong, some members may feel that the legacy rushee should understand the responsibilities of what it means to be Greek better - i.e. good grades, financial and time obligations etc. Thus while not being a legacy to the particular fraternity, his legacy status may have a positive influence.

For what it is worth, I have heard of NPC sorority members saying that they love getting other sororities' legacies. Some have said they like legacies in general for the reasons similar to what I wrote above - i.e. "what it means to be Greek". While others have given silly reasons like "We love to steal other chapters' legacies."

Originally Posted by Just interested

TSteven

Thanks for the headache!

I am to please.

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Not to mention there is no mention of PNMs with multiple legacies, which also skews the numbers.

And this!

Again, the bottom line is just because 30.81 % of the legacies were extended a bid to their legacy chapter, does not mean that the other legacies did not have some sort of advantage over those PNMs who were not legacies. Unless you are at every chapter's membership selection vote, you won't know.