How Moms Should Treat Their Legacy Daughters

[33girl]

No, you can ride in our lane, MC. I know that the philanthropy had zero to do with the sorority I joined. I think if, say, you had someone near you go through breast cancer it can maybe make you look twice at ZTA if you hadn't before, but when it comes down to it I would say maybe 0.00001% of girls join because of the group's philanthropy.

As for deludanoid mom:

1) Show her some of the "my perfect daughter got cut" stories on here. Tell her she is setting her daughter up to fail, period. Not only that, what if she hates mom's sorority and they hate her? Even if she gets in or Mom buffaloes her in, no one will be happy. Then again I don't think that sort of parent really cares about their child's happiness, they care about them being the perfect ornament to show their "accomplishment" of child rearing.*

2) "I would love it if you pledged the same group I did, because I've gotten so much happiness and so many lifelong friends from it. However, I know that campuses are different/chapters change over time and I want you to join the group that will make you the most content. So don't get too focused on XYZ."

Also: if Mom has a Facebook page and is reconnecting with her college friends, it can help to show Daughter how many of those friends were from different sororities and not just her own. In other words, this is not just lip service about other chapters being awesome.

*Does it bug the living f%&k out of anyone else when you hear a parent say "my greatest accomplishments/achievements are my children"? Getting the deck refinished is an accomplishment. A child is a living breathing human being.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I think if, say, you had someone near you go through breast cancer it can maybe make you look twice at ZTA if you hadn't before, but when it comes down to it I would say maybe 0.00001% of girls join because of the group's philanthropy.

I do know one newly-minted alumna for whom Pi Phi's association with literacy was a bid attraction.

Originally Posted by 33girl

*Does it bug the living f%&k out of anyone else when you hear a parent say "my greatest accomplishments/achievements are my children"? Getting the deck refinished is an accomplishment. A child is a living breathing human being.

Yes! If you're going to claim anything having to do with your children as an accomplishment, it should be "my greatest accomplishment is not screwing up parenting too much."

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by 33girl

*Does it bug the living f%&k out of anyone else when you hear a parent say "my greatest accomplishments/achievements are my children"? Getting the deck refinished is an accomplishment. A child is a living breathing human being.

YES. If it's really true, you are a sad person. I'm proud of my daughter*, but her accomplishments are HERS, not mine. I have my own accomplishments.


*I'm proud of the son, too. However, potty training is his biggest accomplishment so far, and if it becomes the greatest accomplishment of his life, I may have to rescind that. Just kidding. (Kind of )

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by 33girl

*Does it bug the living f%&k out of anyone else when you hear a parent say "my greatest accomplishments/achievements are my children"? Getting the deck refinished is an accomplishment. A child is a living breathing human being.

It's comments like this that make me wish I could "like" comments on GC.

I don't know the mom super well, just the daughter through her older sister (who I taught and who - apparently mercifully - went to a school without Greek life). I don't want to be pushy with the mom since I don't know her all that well, but I did tell the PNM to keep in mind that both my sister and I were cut by our legacy chapter at Bama and UGA. She seemed surprised and told me she would tell her mom.

I was also thinking that maybe this mom IS well-informed and thus knows that the campus in question has guaranteed bidding for PNMs who maximize their options. Maybe she is counting on her daughter being cut by all of the other houses since she won't have recs and will be at a disadvantage... and then her legacy chapter will have to take her in the end if they are the only one left?

I don't know what she's thinking... she seems like a bright woman and I just can't imagine she believes her daughter is a shoo-in.

I spoke to alumnae from a couple of other sororities who know the PNM (and now know the crazy situation), and we are all planning on writing recs for the girl without the girl or mom knowing. Hopefully this will at least prevent a total disaster in August, and she won't get in trouble for seeking recs when her mom told her not to.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

I was also thinking that maybe this mom IS well-informed and thus knows that the campus in question has guaranteed bidding for PNMs who maximize their options. Maybe she is counting on her daughter being cut by all of the other houses since she won't have recs and will be at a disadvantage... and then her legacy chapter will have to take her in the end if they are the only one left?

The only guarantee is "if you go back to everywhere you're invited to you'll get a bid." You're not guaranteed to get those invites to begin with. If the chapter has 359 legacies they like more than her, she could be SOL.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by 33girl

The only guarantee is "if you go back to everywhere you're invited to you'll get a bid." You're not guaranteed to get those invites to begin with. If the chapter has 359 legacies they like more than her, she could be SOL.

Very true... just trying to get inside the mom's head.

I might try to bring it up with the mom if I happen to run into her, but I don't want to call her out of the blue to tell her I think she's delusional (not in so many words, but you know what I mean). I worry that she'll think I'm just trying to tell her that I know her alma mater better than she does (which, clearly, I do).

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

Very true... just trying to get inside the mom's head.

I might try to bring it up with the mom if I happen to run into her, but I don't want to call her out of the blue to tell her I think she's delusional (not in so many words, but you know what I mean). I worry that she'll think I'm just trying to tell her that I know her alma mater better than she does (which, clearly, I do).

Perhaps you could very innocently call the mother and say you'd be so happy to sponsor Susie to DG if she doesn't already have a DG one and ask her to send you the girl's resume. I doubt she'll tell you that she's not letting the girl get any other recs outside her legacy group!

[KSUViolet06]

In reading this story, it actually doesn't sound like she is deliberately trying to sabotage her.

It sounds like she genuinely thinks that her daughter doesn't need any other recs because she's guaranteed a bid to her legacy house. You say she's out of state. Heck, where mom was initiated, it may be true that all legacies got bids.

Every now and then, I'll meet a PNM who has decided to go out of state and rush somewhere competitive. Mom usually attended a school in Ohio that wasn't competitive at all (like Akron, BG, Kent, etc.) She'll think the same thing ("oh she'll probably not need that extra stuff because all legacies get bids.") and won't bother securing recs.

I usually refer those moms to the larger SEC recruitment threads (like the Bama or Auburn threads) where moms are coming on in droves lamenting the fact that their daughters were cut as legacies (some as direct legacies to that chapter).

This is why it's SO important for our orgs to EDUCATE alumnae about not only the legacy policy, but also about how recruitment has changed since they were active, that there are INCREASED numbers of legacies at some schools, and that what used to be a sure thing, often isn't anymore.

I recall reading someone on here that an NPC group published a magazine article on this topic not too long ago that bascially said that while we would love for every legacy to pledge XYZ, that doesn't always happen and that parents need to be prepared for that and support their child in her decisions.

At Convention, I met many women who are legacies. I met one collegian who was recently initiated at our newest chapter (High Point). She was pinned by her mother at Initiation with her grandma's badge and her 2 sisters present. That was a great story and I definitely see the value of legacies.

I also had the opportunity to meet older alumnae whose daughters represent a variety of NPC orgs--one woman had 5 daughters and each of them joined a different org! So they do share the bond of being Panhellenicc women and support their daughter's efforts in their chapters.

I don't have kids, but I have always felt that I'd rather see my kid happy as XYZ, than miserable as a Sigma (because I pressured her to join).

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

In reading this story, it actually doesn't sound like she is deliberately trying to sabotage her.

It sounds like she genuinely thinks that her daughter doesn't need any other recs because she's guaranteed a bid to her legacy house. You say she's out of state. Heck, where mom was initiated, it may be true that all legacies got bids.

Even if that is the case, the fact that what was right for her 20-30 years ago might not be right for her daughter hasn't even crossed the selfish heffa's mind. This is along the same lines of the moms with weight problems who make their (perfectly healthy and thin) daughters crazy about their weight - although I think that one's a little less deliberate.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

This is why it's SO important for our orgs to EDUCATE alumnae about not only the legacy policy, but also about how recruitment has changed since they were active, that there are INCREASED numbers of legacies at some schools, and that what used to be a sure thing, often isn't anymore.

It is definitely important to educate our alumnae.

Having said that, however, the women who would benefit most from such education are exactly those women who would be least likely to be receptive to such education. (Generalizing here, obviously.) They're the women who aren't very active in alumnae groups; the ones who don't communicate regularly with current collegians; the ones who never crack open their orgs' magazines; etc... They're also the ones who expect their daughters to be given the royal treatment, and are the ones who are most upset when their daughters are cut form their legacy houses.

So yes, we absolutely need to educate. It probably won't reach those alumnae who need it most, though. (And, for some reason, I believe the mom discussed in the OP would fall into this category.)

[AZ-AlphaXi]

Interesting statistic from the Auburn recruitment online handbook:

In 2009, 714 of our 1114 potential members were legacies. But, only 220 joined a sorority they are a legacy to. The rest joined other groups or did not join at all. Legacies do not have any particular advantage when it comes to receiving bids.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by AZ-AlphaXi

Interesting statistic from the Auburn recruitment online handbook:

In 2009, 714 of our 1114 potential members were legacies. But, only 220 joined a sorority they are a legacy to. The rest joined other groups or did not join at all. Legacies do not have any particular advantage when it comes to receiving bids.

One needs to be careful in interpreting these statistics. All that we really know from the above statistics is that 30.81% of the legacies joined their legacy chapter.

1. It is unknown how many of the legacies that did not join their legacy group were released by the legacy chapter or if they - the PNM - released their legacy chapter.

2. It is unknown how many of the 220 legacies that did join their legacy sorority would not have been extended a bid to any other chapter. In other words, had they not been legacies, they may not have received *any* bid. To be crude about it, being a legacy was the main reason behind their receiving their bid.

3. It is unknown how many of the legacies that joined a different sorority were extend a bid simply because they were a legacy to any sorority. In other words, XYZ chapter might feel that an ABC legacy is better than a PNM that is not a legacy to any group.

4. It is unknown how many in-house legacies were extended a bid to their legacy versus those legacies that were not in-house. As has been noted, not all legacies may be equal, so being in-house might have been an advantage. Or not.

Again, these are all hypothetical, but the bottom line is that we really don't really know how a PNM's legacy effected there recruitment.

So perhaps the likelihood that legacies may not have a particular advantage to receive/accept a bid to their legacy chapter, just being a NPC legacy may still have been an advantage overall. Or not.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by AZ-AlphaXi

Interesting statistic from the Auburn recruitment online handbook:In 2009, 714 of our 1114 potential members were legacies. But, only 220 joined a sorority they are a legacy to. The rest joined other groups or did not join at all. Legacies do not have any particular advantage when it comes to receiving bids.

Argghh. A pledge sister's daughter is rushing there this year. Several of us are trying to figure a way to let her know about what AU rush is like these days without hurting her feelings and making her think that we think her daughter's not outstanding. She is outstanding. So are hundreds of others. However, our sister has lived far from AU for many years and doesn't know about the changes. I know what we need to do but selecting the right words is hard.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by AZ-AlphaXi

Interesting statistic from the Auburn recruitment online handbook:

In 2009, 714 of our 1114 potential members were legacies. But, only 220 joined a sorority they are a legacy to. The rest joined other groups or did not join at all. Legacies do not have any particular advantage when it comes to receiving bids.

The important part of this statistic is that 64% of PNMs these days at Auburn are legacies. This no longer makes you special. It makes you average.

[DTD Alum]

Originally Posted by AZ-AlphaXi

Interesting statistic from the Auburn recruitment online handbook:

In 2009, 714 of our 1114 potential members were legacies. But, only 220 joined a sorority they are a legacy to. The rest joined other groups or did not join at all. Legacies do not have any particular advantage when it comes to receiving bids.

What was a recent quota at Auburn? With 16 sororities, that means on average each sorority had 44-45 legacies coming through. However, I'd be willing to bet that some of the sororities that are not as omnipresent in the south (Alpha Xi Delta or Sigma Kappa, for example) had less, which probably means that some of the sororities that are highly concentrated in the south (Kappa Delta, Chi Omega or Phi Mu) had significantly more than 45ish.