How Moms Should Treat Their Legacy Daughters

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

1. I bet mom doesn't know that she is sabotaging her daughter's recruitment. Odds are, in her chapter, while she was there legacy=in. She's probably not aware of how things have changed.

This is what I was thinking -- time warp.

dgdramadawg, how well do you know the mom? Do you think you could have a conversation with her that doesn't reveal anything daughter told you other than that's she's going through recruitment? Somethink like, "Daughter told me she's rushing/going through recruitment at SEC school! I know you'd be thrilled if she joined your chapter there. It's too bad times have changed and being a legacy doesn't have the same weight it used to . . . ." See where it goes from there?

2. I think moms can talk up their college sorority experience, their philanthropy and the reasons why XYZ was good for them.

Lane swerving big time, and merely FWIW, but in my experience with friends and family who are in NPC sororities, philanthropy was not a big deal back in the day. By that, I certainly don't mean that doing charitable/philanthropic things weren't a big deal. They were. I mean rush didn't include a philanthropy round (I don't think), and the idea of connecting with a particular group because you liked their philanthropy just didn't seem to be part of the picture at all. While I may have been ignorant, I don't remember particular sororities being associated with particular philanthropies.* GC introduced me to the current importance of that idea.

Maybe I just wasn't noticing, though.

/back to my lane.

*ETA: The major exception to this was Pi Beta Phi and Arrowmont.

[33girl]

No, you can ride in our lane, MC. I know that the philanthropy had zero to do with the sorority I joined. I think if, say, you had someone near you go through breast cancer it can maybe make you look twice at ZTA if you hadn't before, but when it comes down to it I would say maybe 0.00001% of girls join because of the group's philanthropy.

As for deludanoid mom:

1) Show her some of the "my perfect daughter got cut" stories on here. Tell her she is setting her daughter up to fail, period. Not only that, what if she hates mom's sorority and they hate her? Even if she gets in or Mom buffaloes her in, no one will be happy. Then again I don't think that sort of parent really cares about their child's happiness, they care about them being the perfect ornament to show their "accomplishment" of child rearing.*

2) "I would love it if you pledged the same group I did, because I've gotten so much happiness and so many lifelong friends from it. However, I know that campuses are different/chapters change over time and I want you to join the group that will make you the most content. So don't get too focused on XYZ."

Also: if Mom has a Facebook page and is reconnecting with her college friends, it can help to show Daughter how many of those friends were from different sororities and not just her own. In other words, this is not just lip service about other chapters being awesome.

*Does it bug the living f%&k out of anyone else when you hear a parent say "my greatest accomplishments/achievements are my children"? Getting the deck refinished is an accomplishment. A child is a living breathing human being.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I think if, say, you had someone near you go through breast cancer it can maybe make you look twice at ZTA if you hadn't before, but when it comes down to it I would say maybe 0.00001% of girls join because of the group's philanthropy.

I do know one newly-minted alumna for whom Pi Phi's association with literacy was a bid attraction.

Originally Posted by 33girl

*Does it bug the living f%&k out of anyone else when you hear a parent say "my greatest accomplishments/achievements are my children"? Getting the deck refinished is an accomplishment. A child is a living breathing human being.

Yes! If you're going to claim anything having to do with your children as an accomplishment, it should be "my greatest accomplishment is not screwing up parenting too much."

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by 33girl

*Does it bug the living f%&k out of anyone else when you hear a parent say "my greatest accomplishments/achievements are my children"? Getting the deck refinished is an accomplishment. A child is a living breathing human being.

YES. If it's really true, you are a sad person. I'm proud of my daughter*, but her accomplishments are HERS, not mine. I have my own accomplishments.


*I'm proud of the son, too. However, potty training is his biggest accomplishment so far, and if it becomes the greatest accomplishment of his life, I may have to rescind that. Just kidding. (Kind of )

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by 33girl

*Does it bug the living f%&k out of anyone else when you hear a parent say "my greatest accomplishments/achievements are my children"? Getting the deck refinished is an accomplishment. A child is a living breathing human being.

It's comments like this that make me wish I could "like" comments on GC.

I don't know the mom super well, just the daughter through her older sister (who I taught and who - apparently mercifully - went to a school without Greek life). I don't want to be pushy with the mom since I don't know her all that well, but I did tell the PNM to keep in mind that both my sister and I were cut by our legacy chapter at Bama and UGA. She seemed surprised and told me she would tell her mom.

I was also thinking that maybe this mom IS well-informed and thus knows that the campus in question has guaranteed bidding for PNMs who maximize their options. Maybe she is counting on her daughter being cut by all of the other houses since she won't have recs and will be at a disadvantage... and then her legacy chapter will have to take her in the end if they are the only one left?

I don't know what she's thinking... she seems like a bright woman and I just can't imagine she believes her daughter is a shoo-in.

I spoke to alumnae from a couple of other sororities who know the PNM (and now know the crazy situation), and we are all planning on writing recs for the girl without the girl or mom knowing. Hopefully this will at least prevent a total disaster in August, and she won't get in trouble for seeking recs when her mom told her not to.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

I was also thinking that maybe this mom IS well-informed and thus knows that the campus in question has guaranteed bidding for PNMs who maximize their options. Maybe she is counting on her daughter being cut by all of the other houses since she won't have recs and will be at a disadvantage... and then her legacy chapter will have to take her in the end if they are the only one left?

The only guarantee is "if you go back to everywhere you're invited to you'll get a bid." You're not guaranteed to get those invites to begin with. If the chapter has 359 legacies they like more than her, she could be SOL.

[dgdramadawg]

Originally Posted by 33girl

The only guarantee is "if you go back to everywhere you're invited to you'll get a bid." You're not guaranteed to get those invites to begin with. If the chapter has 359 legacies they like more than her, she could be SOL.

Very true... just trying to get inside the mom's head.

I might try to bring it up with the mom if I happen to run into her, but I don't want to call her out of the blue to tell her I think she's delusional (not in so many words, but you know what I mean). I worry that she'll think I'm just trying to tell her that I know her alma mater better than she does (which, clearly, I do).

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

Very true... just trying to get inside the mom's head.

I might try to bring it up with the mom if I happen to run into her, but I don't want to call her out of the blue to tell her I think she's delusional (not in so many words, but you know what I mean). I worry that she'll think I'm just trying to tell her that I know her alma mater better than she does (which, clearly, I do).

Perhaps you could very innocently call the mother and say you'd be so happy to sponsor Susie to DG if she doesn't already have a DG one and ask her to send you the girl's resume. I doubt she'll tell you that she's not letting the girl get any other recs outside her legacy group!

[KSUViolet06]

In reading this story, it actually doesn't sound like she is deliberately trying to sabotage her.

It sounds like she genuinely thinks that her daughter doesn't need any other recs because she's guaranteed a bid to her legacy house. You say she's out of state. Heck, where mom was initiated, it may be true that all legacies got bids.

Every now and then, I'll meet a PNM who has decided to go out of state and rush somewhere competitive. Mom usually attended a school in Ohio that wasn't competitive at all (like Akron, BG, Kent, etc.) She'll think the same thing ("oh she'll probably not need that extra stuff because all legacies get bids.") and won't bother securing recs.

I usually refer those moms to the larger SEC recruitment threads (like the Bama or Auburn threads) where moms are coming on in droves lamenting the fact that their daughters were cut as legacies (some as direct legacies to that chapter).

This is why it's SO important for our orgs to EDUCATE alumnae about not only the legacy policy, but also about how recruitment has changed since they were active, that there are INCREASED numbers of legacies at some schools, and that what used to be a sure thing, often isn't anymore.

I recall reading someone on here that an NPC group published a magazine article on this topic not too long ago that bascially said that while we would love for every legacy to pledge XYZ, that doesn't always happen and that parents need to be prepared for that and support their child in her decisions.

At Convention, I met many women who are legacies. I met one collegian who was recently initiated at our newest chapter (High Point). She was pinned by her mother at Initiation with her grandma's badge and her 2 sisters present. That was a great story and I definitely see the value of legacies.

I also had the opportunity to meet older alumnae whose daughters represent a variety of NPC orgs--one woman had 5 daughters and each of them joined a different org! So they do share the bond of being Panhellenicc women and support their daughter's efforts in their chapters.

I don't have kids, but I have always felt that I'd rather see my kid happy as XYZ, than miserable as a Sigma (because I pressured her to join).

[AZ-AlphaXi]

Interesting statistic from the Auburn recruitment online handbook:

In 2009, 714 of our 1114 potential members were legacies. But, only 220 joined a sorority they are a legacy to. The rest joined other groups or did not join at all. Legacies do not have any particular advantage when it comes to receiving bids.

[exlurker]

Edited to add:

A fairly new article or opinion piece related to the alumna-and-daughter topic is on the Delta Delta Delta site. The article's title:
“MY DAUGHTER’S AN ADPI, WHAT’S YOURS? (Musings from a newly educated Delta)”

It's in the “Recruitment Demystified” portion of the site, which is in PDF and can be accessed from this page:

https://www.tridelta.org/Collegian/Recruitment/

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

. . I don't want to be pushy with the mom since I don't know her all that well, but I did tell the PNM to keep in mind that both my sister and I were cut by our legacy chapter at Bama and UGA. She seemed surprised and told me she would tell her mom.

. . . I spoke to alumnae from a couple of other sororities who know the PNM (and now know the crazy situation), and we are all planning on writing recs for the girl without the girl or mom knowing. Hopefully this will at least prevent a total disaster in August, and she won't get in trouble for seeking recs when her mom told her not to.

Sounds like a decent plan.

Speaking of "total disaster," isn't part of the excitement / fun of recruitment going to parties where a PNM meets new people? Since the PNM's going to a school where recs are a must, she could really have a downer of a recruitment, couldn't she, if she doesn't have recs for any org except her mom's? Sitting around "partyless" (except maybe for the legacy chapter) when others are out meeting and greeting doesn't sound like much fun.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

I spoke to alumnae from a couple of other sororities who know the PNM (and now know the crazy situation), and we are all planning on writing recs for the girl without the girl or mom knowing. Hopefully this will at least prevent a total disaster in August, and she won't get in trouble for seeking recs when her mom told her not to.

From one DG to another, if you feel comfortable endorsing this girl for DG, then I think you should go ahead and write the rec form, but not divulge this to the PNM nor her mother. You don't need anyone's "permission" to write a sponsor form and the intention of sponsorship is to keep the Fraternity strong with good, capable, sustaining candidates for membership.

Another DG that I know (who is a former CDC) once said to me that in many ways, it's actually preferable that the PNM not be aware that you are writing a Rec for them, in the event that their Recruitment outcome is not what they wanted.

[ComradesTrue]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Lane swerving big time, and merely FWIW, but in my experience with friends and family who are in NPC sororities, philanthropy was not a big deal back in the day. By that, I certainly don't mean that doing charitable/philanthropic things weren't a big deal. They were. I mean rush didn't include a philanthropy round (I don't think), and the idea of connecting with a particular group because you liked their philanthropy just didn't seem to be part of the picture at all. While I may have been ignorant, I don't remember particular sororities being associated with particular philanthropies. GC introduced me to the current importance of that idea.

Maybe I just wasn't noticing, though.

/back to my lane.

No, you are correct.

I was in college during the early 90s and there was no philanthropy round and most chapters on my campus did not even have a signature philanthropy event. DG had anchorsplash, which I think may have been a national thing, but beyond that I don't remember a single other event and we had 10 chapters. It wasn't that we weren't good people- we were!- but we obtained our service hours through individual service projects. However, service hours were not something that was highlighted during recruitment, and my favorable memories of sorority life do not really include them.

Back to the original post, a few things. First, I find the story completely heartbreaking for that PNM. Mommy really needs to get a grip and start letting daughter live her own life. I can't believe that someone would be selfish enough to actually put that type of pressure on their own child.

The suggestions to talk with the mom are excellent. Times have completely changed and most of that generation have not kept up. OP- do you think mom is nutty enough to really follow through with the threat of not paying? I was going to suggest that you help her get the other recs, but what if she gets a bid to a different group? Would she have to depledge because the PNM alone can't afford SEC dues?

ETA: everyone must type fast than I do. Sorry for the repeat info.