Nun excommunicated for allowing abortion to save the life of a mother

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

According the The Wiki, there are 8 instances where latae sententiae excommunication occurs:

• an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic;
• a person who throws away the consecrated Eucharistic species or takes and retains them for a sacrilegious purpose;
• a person who uses physical force against the Pope;
• a priest who uses confession as a pretext to solicit the confessor to break the commandment against adultery;
• a bishop who ordains someone a bishop without a pontifical mandate, and the person who receives the ordination from him;
• a confessor who directly violates the sacramental seal of confession;
• a person who procures a completed abortion; and
• accomplices who are not named in a law prescribing latae sententiae excommunication but without whose assistance the violation of the law would not have been committed.

I see that raping children, or aiding and abetting in the raping of children, isn't on there. Awesome.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I see that raping children, or aiding and abetting in the raping of children, isn't on there. Awesome.

To be fair, these are just offenses where you are automatically excommunicated. I actually think a few priests were excommunicated for molestation of children. I do find it strange that rape is not on there. I don't recall, but it is possible that rape as a concept is not in the bible, or at least any differently from other forms of unmarried intercourse.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

To be fair, these are just offenses where you are automatically excommunicated. I actually think a few priests were excommunicated for molestation of children. I do find it strange that rape is not on there. I don't recall, but it is possible that rape as a concept is not in the bible, or at least any differently from other forms of unmarried intercourse.

Priests have been defrocked, or left the church but have not been "officially" excommunicated.

You'll note that the list is primarily violations of church law. Abortion is the only thing that could be considered a civil crime (though legal in the US) except assaulting the pope. And then it's more that you hit "THE POPE" than that you hit this guy named Ratzinger.

It bothers me to no end that abortion was deemed worthy of being on this list and no other types of murder (as that is why it is a sin according to the church)

Rape in the bible is an offense against the man to whom the woman belongs: her father or her husband. The church doesn't consider it that today, but this list is not biblically based anyway per se.

Someone who committed murder would be refused communion and expected to confess to a priest, and usually these days penance would include turning themselves in but not excommunicated.

[Drolefille]

As an example of why I get so ragey over this:

Doctor who performs abortion excommunicated.

The girl was 9. She was raped. By her stepfather. The doctor, the medical team, the girl's mother - excommunicated. Her rapist? Nope.

She was spared as she is a minor.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

As an example of why I get so ragey over this:

Doctor who performs abortion excommunicated.

The girl was 9. She was raped. By her stepfather. The doctor, the medical team, the girl's mother - excommunicated. Her rapist? Nope.

She was spared as she is a minor.

Carrying twins, too... man.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

This is true. But there's definitely one story I remember (maybe in Leviticus?) where a woman was raped by several men and was cast out. I don't remember her father being reimbursed.

Found the cite in Deuteronomy 22, he is actually killed if she's pledged to be married, but if he rapes her and she's not pledged he is to give her father 50 shekels and marry her.

And basically if she's in town where she can be heard and doesn't scream for help, she dies. If she's in the country he has to marry her.



And you're probably thinking of Tamar

She was raped by her half-brother. So King David didn't really do shit.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Found the cite in Deuteronomy 22, he is actually killed if she's pledged to be married, but if he rapes her and she's not pledged he is to give her father 50 shekels and marry her.

And basically if she's in town where she can be heard and doesn't scream for help, she dies. If she's in the country he has to marry her.



And you're probably thinking of Tamar

She was raped by her half-brother. So King David didn't really do shit.

Nope, not thinking of Tamar, because it was before King David. I don't have a copy of the Bible at home either, so I think I'm out of luck.

The point was that rape IS discussed in the Bible as a separate entity from extramarital sex.

[SWTXBelle]

Just for clarity's sake -

Excommunication is not a punishment for a sin.

Excommunication means the person excommunicated is not in communion with the Church because of a specific action that basically screams "Hey, I'm not in communion with the church"
(see above list of actions) .
Sin and punishment, both temporal and everlasting, are a whole 'nuther issue.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

To be fair, these are just offenses where you are automatically excommunicated. I actually think a few priests were excommunicated for molestation of children. I do find it strange that rape is not on there. I don't recall, but it is possible that rape as a concept is not in the bible, or at least any differently from other forms of unmarried intercourse.

The concept of rape, as different from extramarital sex, is definitely in the Old Testament.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

The concept of rape, as different from extramarital sex, is definitely in the Old Testament.

Yes, but it's approved of if it's the "good guys" doing it to the "bad guys"

And restitution is made, in cash, to dad/husband.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Yes, but it's approved of if it's the "good guys" doing it to the "bad guys"

And restitution is made, in cash, to dad/husband.

This is true. But there's definitely one story I remember (maybe in Leviticus?) where a woman was raped by several men and was cast out. I don't remember her father being reimbursed.