Miami University Pi Beta Phi Suspended

[UofM-TKE]

Originally Posted by exlurker

A very recent opinion piece -- not a news article, an opinion piece -- by a fraternity advisor and faculty member at Miami is at

http://www.miamistudent.net/opinion/...vive-1.1436140

The author of the piece ^ makes a point (or more) that's seemingly similar to what ADqtPiMel mentioned. I don't necessarily agree with everything in the opinion piece; some of it may be "overkill" in regard to a certain fraternity / chapter. However, the piece does provide the observations of someone who's apparently been involved with Greek life -- especially fraternity life -- at Miami for long time, and who can offer some personal historical perspective.

This link is interesting. It's clear that things are not as they should be at Miami U. At least among some members of some chapters. But...

The vibe I get from this Professor though, is that he misses the 'Good old days', and has a definite dislike for one particular house. He also seems to enjoy naming all of the failed houses through the years, which seems strange to me for a faculty adviser. He is an Alumni Initiate and has only seen things from a faculty point of view. He saw what the brothers let him see.

Well, I was there in the Good old days and there were a good few cinder blocks tossed around then too. Or, in my school's case, coconuts.

In what I view as an egregious error, the board decreased the ending point of the suspension from August 2011 to December 2010. In essence, this “penalty” was a slap on the wrist, as the only meaningful consequence is that the members of Sigma Chi will not be able to participate in Greek Week this year. (There is, of course, the housing situation. According to a new City of Oxford law, any fraternity not recognized by the university cannot obtain a permit to have its fraternity house more than four unrelated people. I am waiting to see what happens here.)

This guy clearly hopes that another house will close, so that he cam add it to his list of failed chapters.

On another topic. When I read this article and I got to the end, I was surprised to see my own picture. It was my Facebook account, offering to let me 'Like' or comment on this story. Somewhere, there is a database which knows that I read this article, and which I find very creepy.

[AXiDMeesh]

Originally Posted by UofM-TKE

On another topic. When I read this article and I got to the end, I was surprised to see my own picture. It was my Facebook account, offering to let me 'Like' or comment on this story. Somewhere, there is a database which knows that I read this article, and which I find very creepy.

I have noticed this myself from around the interwebz, and after some digging around I learned that Facebook has partnered with a ton of sites for the purpose of "sharing". I found it extremely creepy and kind of Big Brother-ish. I don't want or need FB to know what all websites I visit and then try to share them with everyone. That's worse than the spambots.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AXiDMeesh

I have noticed this myself from around the interwebz, and after some digging around I learned that Facebook has partnered with a ton of sites for the purpose of "sharing". I found it extremely creepy and kind of Big Brother-ish. I don't want or need FB to know what all websites I visit and then try to share them with everyone. That's worse than the spambots.

Pandora and Yelp are the biggest offenders I think.

On that note - you know how they changed profiles with your interests and they all link to pages? Those are completely public and can't be hidden. So if you're a guy who likes Lady Gaga, Liza Minnelli and pink drinks and are applying for a job at Bob Jones U, you might want to get rid of those.

[exlurker]

Holy crap.
I had no idea tha the stuff 33girl,AXiDMeesh, and UofMTKE mention was going on.

I feel guilty now for having posted something that brought this about (if it did -- or is it a kind of random thing that isn't directly related to a particular posting, thread or GC site?)

Anyway:

Kevin or a supermod -- if what I posted was at fault for putting info out there that nobody expected to have pop up in that context, feel free to edit or delete.

And please accept my apologies if my ignorance or mistake caused difficulties.

[DrPhil]

Hijack/

Yep, facebook is Big Brother and stalker and TMI central. I avoid it like the plague.

I feel that way about the Internet in general and don't web search or read articles from every site. I've started using the Internet more on a utility/need something basis. But, GC, "why can't I quit you?"
/hijack

[UofM-TKE]

Originally Posted by exlurker

Holy crap.
I had no idea tha the stuff 33girl,AXiDMeesh, and UofMTKE mention was going on.

I feel guilty now for having posted something that brought this about (if it did -- or is it a kind of random thing that isn't directly related to a particular posting, thread or GC site?)

Anyway:

Kevin or a supermod -- if what I posted was at fault for putting info out there that nobody expected to have pop up in that context, feel free to edit or delete.

And please accept my apologies if my ignorance or mistake caused difficulties.

This has nothing to do with anything that you did. Its just that the Miami U paper's website seems to have allowed Facebook to install what seems to be called the 'Facebook social plugin' on to their site. It looks like some others have been installed too.

To be on topic, this is the kind of thing that makes something that might have gone unnoticed years ago, very viable now. The hotel owner released her letter, it went viral and it can never be undone.

[ComradesTrue]

Originally Posted by exlurker

Holy crap.
I had no idea tha the stuff 33girl,AXiDMeesh, and UofMTKE mention was going on.

I feel guilty now for having posted something that brought this about (if it did -- or is it a kind of random thing that isn't directly related to a particular posting, thread or GC site?)

Anyway:

Kevin or a supermod -- if what I posted was at fault for putting info out there that nobody expected to have pop up in that context, feel free to edit or delete.

And please accept my apologies if my ignorance or mistake caused difficulties.

/hijack

This is Facebook's fault, not yours. This new "feature" was added a few weeks ago and also includes plugins to websites such as cnn, people, etc. I, too, was shocked beyond belief to see my picture (and friends' pictures too) on a website that I was visiting for the first time.

Of course FB set the default privacy setting to "allow" for everyone unless we turn it off. Therefore, if you don't like it I encourage everyone to go into their privacy settings-> applications and websites-> instant personalization pilot program. Unclick.

You may still need to "sign out" from the facebook portion of sites that you have visited since FB launched the program. I updated my privacy settings about a week ago, and other than "signing out" in those facebook boxes for about 24 hours I haven't had a problem since.

Again, realize that even if you aren't seeing yourself on certain sites your friends can see if you have read/liked an article on that site.

Annoying beyond belief.

end hijack/

[MUGreek2011]

Originally Posted by UofM-TKE

This link is interesting. It's clear that things are not as they should be at Miami U. At least among some members of some chapters. But...

The vibe I get from this Professor though, is that he misses the 'Good old days', and has a definite dislike for one particular house. He also seems to enjoy naming all of the failed houses through the years, which seems strange to me for a faculty adviser. He is an Alumni Initiate and has only seen things from a faculty point of view. He saw what the brothers let him see.

Well, I was there in the Good old days and there were a good few cinder blocks tossed around then too. Or, in my school's case, coconuts.This guy clearly hopes that another house will close, so that he cam add it to his list of failed chapters.

On another topic. When I read this article and I got to the end, I was surprised to see my own picture. It was my Facebook account, offering to let me 'Like' or comment on this story. Somewhere, there is a database which knows that I read this article, and which I find very creepy.

Never thought I'd be on this site, but alas, here I am. This post should be exhibit A on why you shouldn't make judgments without having the full context. Jerry Miller, one man, has done more for greek life at Miami than any collection of 5 individuals you could put together, and it isn't really close. My mother graduated from Miami in the 70s. My brother just graduated from Miami this past weekend, and I will graduate next May. Jerry was helping fraternities back when my mom was there, and I've recently seen the immense amount of counsel and help Jerry has given my own chapter as he mentored one of our young, emerging leaders. Bear in mind he is not an official adviser of my chapter--he is the adviser for another chapter, but he goes above and beyond to help others in any way that he can.

He was recently recognized with some kind of lifelong recognition award for his service to the greek community. Additionally, the "Outstanding Faculty/Staff Member" award given out annually at the greek awards banquet is named in his honor, and rightfully so. I have not had the pleasure of meeting Jerry or thanking him for his service to my chapter and the numerous others, so this isn't a friend of his sticking up for him, just someone who would hate to see a good man's reputation dragged through the mud when he has done so much.

Despite Miami touting its status as the "Mother of Fraternities" and using that as a recruiting tool, what many do not know is the stance the administration has taken towards greek life in recent years. As mentioned in the article above, faculty members are discouraged from serving as advisers to greek organizations, whereas it used to be lauded (and helpful in attaining tenure) in the past. The university's stance on hazing is ludicrous, as under their mandates having pledges participate in any event as a group constitutes 'hazing'. As in, where there used to be a philanthropy basketball tournament between the fraternities pledge classes, this year the tournament had to be opened up to everyone so that it wouldn't be 'hazing'. I'm certainly not suggesting we be allowed to paddle the crap out of our pledges or do some of the stuff that was completely fair game in years past, but lets be reasonable. Instead of being reasonable, the university has looked for every opportunity to hinder greek life in years past rather than addressing the problem chapters and letting those who operate responsibly to continue to do so, free of ridiculous red tape and regulations. Unfortunately, in all likelihood the university will use all the negative publicity just received as the means to attain the end they have wanted for awhile, which is a significantly diminished greek system.

While it may seem in the article above that Jerry is 'gunning' for one particular fraternity, in reality he just wants organizations to operate responsibly. He has put countless hours into making sure houses do succeed, but at the same time he will call a spade a spade when need be. I've been here for 3+ years, which has been more than enough to know that his criticisms of Sigma Chi at Miami are completely justified. In addition to the violations noted in the article, they were found to be violating our dry rush regulations by smoking weed in a back room during rush. They were also supposedly involved in a coke deal gone bad with the football team that left a pledge in the hospital with serious injuries. Despite all this and our IFC's best efforts to have them banished long-term so a culture change could occur, the administration caved to their Alpha status and alumni pressure and gave them a joke of a punishment, only kicking them off for one semester.

It's all politics, as is seen yet again with the recent punishments of Pi Phi and Fuzzie. Take some time to read the letters from the Pi Phi and Fuzzie formals back to back. Tell me which is worse, and if you show me someone who tries to justify Pi Phi (with a history of showing up drunk to the few philanthropies they actually attend) getting 1 year off and Fuzzie (involved on campus, no bad history) getting 2 I'll show you a liar. Our administration thought back to the Princeton Review slamming Miami for a lack of diversity, and decided that they couldn't afford to be seen as giving a slap on the wrist for bad behavior at the Freedom Center. I have been told that this was the first large event held at the Freedom Center, so they didn't know what to expect. While the drinking and trashed bathrooms are certainly not appropriate, they are not really that far outside the realm of expectations for a formal. Obviously the student attempting to pee on a monument is completely unacceptable, but that was a date and the girls certainly didn't condone it.

I would make the argument that while the Fuzzie girls were not well-behaved, the Freedom Center never should have been hosting an event like that in the first place. But they are hard up for cash, as the center has lost money every year since it opened to the best of my knowledge, so they are looking for any possible additional revenue (see: the spokesman suggesting they come back for a tour in the fall). They deserve a punishment, but social probation is more appropriate, not kicking off for 2 years a chapter that contributes on campus.

On the other hand, Pi Phi showed a complete disregard and treated the staff at their formal as if they weren't even human, with one responding to a worker telling her a stall was out of order by saying, "You don't understand..I don't care." The rest of their actions that night reflected that attitude. Pi Phi not getting the 2 year kiss of death is a joke. They earned it. I'm extremely disappointed by the way our administration has handled greek life over the past few years, and the way they have handled these two cases is absolutely despicable. Instead of doing the right thing, they are ruining the sorority experience for a whole chapter (Fuzzie) in an attempt to save face with the African American community. The university was going to take a massive image hit once the Pi Phi letter went public anyway, so throwing Fuzzie under the bus wasn't going to help anything. They deserve a reprimand, but not to have their whole experience ended.

[sydney bristow]

Originally Posted by MUGreek2011

Never thought I'd be on this site, but alas, here I am. This post should be exhibit A on why you shouldn't make judgments without having the full context. Jerry Miller, one man, has done more for greek life at Miami than any collection of 5 individuals you could put together, and it isn't really close. My mother graduated from Miami in the 70s. My brother just graduated from Miami this past weekend, and I will graduate next May. Jerry was helping fraternities back when my mom was there, and I've recently seen the immense amount of counsel and help Jerry has given my own chapter as he mentored one of our young, emerging leaders. Bear in mind he is not an official adviser of my chapter--he is the adviser for another chapter, but he goes above and beyond to help others in any way that he can.

He was recently recognized with some kind of lifelong recognition award for his service to the greek community. Additionally, the "Outstanding Faculty/Staff Member" award given out annually at the greek awards banquet is named in his honor, and rightfully so. I have not had the pleasure of meeting Jerry or thanking him for his service to my chapter and the numerous others, so this isn't a friend of his sticking up for him, just someone who would hate to see a good man's reputation dragged through the mud when he has done so much.

Despite Miami touting its status as the "Mother of Fraternities" and using that as a recruiting tool, what many do not know is the stance the administration has taken towards greek life in recent years. As mentioned in the article above, faculty members are discouraged from serving as advisers to greek organizations, whereas it used to be lauded (and helpful in attaining tenure) in the past. The university's stance on hazing is ludicrous, as under their mandates having pledges participate in any event as a group constitutes 'hazing'. As in, where there used to be a philanthropy basketball tournament between the fraternities pledge classes, this year the tournament had to be opened up to everyone so that it wouldn't be 'hazing'. I'm certainly not suggesting we be allowed to paddle the crap out of our pledges or do some of the stuff that was completely fair game in years past, but lets be reasonable. Instead of being reasonable, the university has looked for every opportunity to hinder greek life in years past rather than addressing the problem chapters and letting those who operate responsibly to continue to do so, free of ridiculous red tape and regulations. Unfortunately, in all likelihood the university will use all the negative publicity just received as the means to attain the end they have wanted for awhile, which is a significantly diminished greek system.

While it may seem in the article above that Jerry is 'gunning' for one particular fraternity, in reality he just wants organizations to operate responsibly. He has put countless hours into making sure houses do succeed, but at the same time he will call a spade a spade when need be. I've been here for 3+ years, which has been more than enough to know that his criticisms of Sigma Chi at Miami are completely justified. In addition to the violations noted in the article, they were found to be violating our dry rush regulations by smoking weed in a back room during rush. They were also supposedly involved in a coke deal gone bad with the football team that left a pledge in the hospital with serious injuries. Despite all this and our IFC's best efforts to have them banished long-term so a culture change could occur, the administration caved to their Alpha status and alumni pressure and gave them a joke of a punishment, only kicking them off for one semester.

It's all politics, as is seen yet again with the recent punishments of Pi Phi and Fuzzie. Take some time to read the letters from the Pi Phi and Fuzzie formals back to back. Tell me which is worse, and if you show me someone who tries to justify Pi Phi (with a history of showing up drunk to the few philanthropies they actually attend) getting 1 year off and Fuzzie (involved on campus, no bad history) getting 2 I'll show you a liar. Our administration thought back to the Princeton Review slamming Miami for a lack of diversity, and decided that they couldn't afford to be seen as giving a slap on the wrist for bad behavior at the Freedom Center. I have been told that this was the first large event held at the Freedom Center, so they didn't know what to expect. While the drinking and trashed bathrooms are certainly not appropriate, they are not really that far outside the realm of expectations for a formal. Obviously the student attempting to pee on a monument is completely unacceptable, but that was a date and the girls certainly didn't condone it.

I would make the argument that while the Fuzzie girls were not well-behaved, the Freedom Center never should have been hosting an event like that in the first place. But they are hard up for cash, as the center has lost money every year since it opened to the best of my knowledge, so they are looking for any possible additional revenue (see: the spokesman suggesting they come back for a tour in the fall). They deserve a punishment, but social probation is more appropriate, not kicking off for 2 years a chapter that contributes on campus.

On the other hand, Pi Phi showed a complete disregard and treated the staff at their formal as if they weren't even human, with one responding to a worker telling her a stall was out of order by saying, "You don't understand..I don't care." The rest of their actions that night reflected that attitude. Pi Phi not getting the 2 year kiss of death is a joke. They earned it. I'm extremely disappointed by the way our administration has handled greek life over the past few years, and the way they have handled these two cases is absolutely despicable. Instead of doing the right thing, they are ruining the sorority experience for a whole chapter (Fuzzie) in an attempt to save face with the African American community. The university was going to take a massive image hit once the Pi Phi letter went public anyway, so throwing Fuzzie under the bus wasn't going to help anything. They deserve a reprimand, but not to have their whole experience ended.

QFP and this is not the place for stereotypes and hearsay. What's done is done and I don't think it's right to tarnish the name of Pi Beta Phi or Alpha Xi Delta by continually bringing this up.

[Katmandu]

Discussing these incidents on this site is not tarnishing the names of the sororities involved. The sleezoid and drunken members/dates and seeming lack of internal chapter leadership are doing that job.

The Cincinnati Enquirer print edition had the Pi Phi story as a headline in the Local section yesterday, and the AXiD story as a headline in the front section today. Middle aged professionals I work with who know I am greek have initiated conversations about this with me and it has been on local talk radio as well.

It does seem that Pi Phi got off easier than AXiD, but the final chapter of all of this is not yet written, I suspect.

What is with defecating in public? Is this a new fad/trend/status?

[sydney bristow]

Originally Posted by Katmandu

Discussing these incidents on this site is not tarnishing the names of the sororities involved. The sleezoid and drunken members/dates and seeming lack of internal chapter leadership are doing that job.

The Cincinnati Enquirer print edition had the Pi Phi story as a headline in the Local section yesterday, and the AXiD story as a headline in the front section today. Middle aged professionals I work with who know I am greek have initiated conversations about this with me and it has been on local talk radio as well.

It does seem that Pi Phi got off easier than AXiD, but the final chapter of all of this is not yet written, I suspect.

What is with defecating in public? Is this a new fad/trend/status?

I completely agree it's fine to discuss these incidents! I'm just not fond of the few posters who like to share their opinions of the chapters along with the facts. Saying things to the nature of "it's no surprise that it was this chapter" or "they showed up drunk to the few philanthropy events they did attend" is what I have a problem with!!!

[FuzzieWuzzie]

Originally Posted by MUGreek2011

It's all politics, as is seen yet again with the recent punishments of Pi Phi and Fuzzie. Take some time to read the letters from the Pi Phi and Fuzzie formals back to back. Tell me which is worse, and if you show me someone who tries to justify Pi Phi (with a history of showing up drunk to the few philanthropies they actually attend) getting 1 year off and Fuzzie (involved on campus, no bad history) getting 2 I'll show you a liar. Our administration thought back to the Princeton Review slamming Miami for a lack of diversity, and decided that they couldn't afford to be seen as giving a slap on the wrist for bad behavior at the Freedom Center. I have been told that this was the first large event held at the Freedom Center, so they didn't know what to expect. While the drinking and trashed bathrooms are certainly not appropriate, they are not really that far outside the realm of expectations for a formal. Obviously the student attempting to pee on a monument is completely unacceptable, but that was a date and the girls certainly didn't condone it.

I would make the argument that while the Fuzzie girls were not well-behaved, the Freedom Center never should have been hosting an event like that in the first place. But they are hard up for cash, as the center has lost money every year since it opened to the best of my knowledge, so they are looking for any possible additional revenue (see: the spokesman suggesting they come back for a tour in the fall). They deserve a punishment, but social probation is more appropriate, not kicking off for 2 years a chapter that contributes on campus.

On the other hand, Pi Phi showed a complete disregard and treated the staff at their formal as if they weren't even human, with one responding to a worker telling her a stall was out of order by saying, "You don't understand..I don't care." The rest of their actions that night reflected that attitude. Pi Phi not getting the 2 year kiss of death is a joke. They earned it. I'm extremely disappointed by the way our administration has handled greek life over the past few years, and the way they have handled these two cases is absolutely despicable. Instead of doing the right thing, they are ruining the sorority experience for a whole chapter (Fuzzie) in an attempt to save face with the African American community. The university was going to take a massive image hit once the Pi Phi letter went public anyway, so throwing Fuzzie under the bus wasn't going to help anything. They deserve a reprimand, but not to have their whole experience ended.

Um, as a member of Alpha Xi Delta and a black woman I am embarrassed and I feel that the punishment is justified. These ladies were representing their organization, their school and themselves. All 3 were let down. Just because it’s a "black" museum, would it make it any better if they were at the natural history museum and started playing baseball with a dinosaur bone? NO!! It would not.

The freedom center is a beautiful building, with gorgeous views. My wedding reception of 250 was held there. It is a venue that can really make a memorable event. So when you say they have never had an event there, that BS.

Additionally I also feel that the women of Pi Beta Phi should have received the same treatment. You state that these women showed total disregard for others, well so did AXiD. I think that the punishments should have been equalized but we don’t know all of the other things that were going on behind the scenes.

And on reading more and more about these incidents, (because it’s on every news & radio station here in Cincinnati) it reminds me as to the reason I chose not to attend Miami for my undergrad. IMO, everything there turns into a black or white thing. But I digress; I won’t get started on that tangent.


But bad behavior is bad behavior.

[MUGreek2011]

Originally Posted by FuzzieWuzzie

Um, as a member of Alpha Xi Delta and a black woman I am embarrassed and I feel that the punishment is justified. These ladies were representing their organization, their school and themselves. All 3 were let down. Just because it’s a "black" museum, would it make it any better if they were at the natural history museum and started playing baseball with a dinosaur bone? NO!! It would not.

The freedom center is a beautiful building, with gorgeous views. My wedding reception of 250 was held there. It is a venue that can really make a memorable event. So when you say they have never had an event there, that BS.

Additionally I also feel that the women of Pi Beta Phi should have received the same treatment. You state that these women showed total disregard for others, well so did AXiD. I think that the punishments should have been equalized but we don’t know all of the other things that were going on behind the scenes.

And on reading more and more about these incidents, (because it’s on every news & radio station here in Cincinnati) it reminds me as to the reason I chose not to attend Miami for my undergrad. IMO, everything there turns into a black or white thing. But I digress; I won’t get started on that tangent.


But bad behavior is bad behavior.

The center definitely does appear to be a place with gorgeous views as I saw for the first time on the news the other night. I would actually be inclined to go visit were it not for the lack of professionalism shown by their staff in addressing this matter (their spokesman going on the radio to trash the sorority, etc.).

Saying that "everything there turns into a black or white thing" is beyond hilarious- I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. We're glad you went elsewhere.

If there's one thing I will agree with you on, it's that the punishments should have been (at least) equalized. Like I said before, I'm not arguing that Fuzzie should have gotten off scot-free. But their sentencing came after Pi Phi's, and to give them twice as much of a punishment in light of the details is reproachable.

Get the chip off your shoulder, in no way did I nor do I intend to suggest that it being a black history museum makes it less important than any other museum. You'll note that I said that the actions of the only student who approached a monument in any way were completely unacceptable.

However, I think if you (and anyone else) takes an honest look at this situation, if we exclude the incident mentioned above, this all would be boiling down to the Freedom Center biting off more than they could chew and now having buyer's remorse. The DJ told the Freedom Center staff prior to the event that the sorority had been banned from BB Riverboats, where they'd previously held an event, for being too out of hand. This almost undoubtedly changed expectations and how they approached the night, and they included this in their letter to Miami. Of course, BB Riverboats has now come out and said that was entirely untrue. If you haven't already read the actual letter from the Freedom Center, I suggest you do so. I have a feeling some of the outrage stems from the fact that people are considering these two incidents one in the same rather than separately looking at them objectively and tearing them apart piece by piece.

So lets do just that. The Freedom Centers' complaints were as follows:

1) The students brought their own alcohol into the center.

Well, by their spokesman's own admission, they were providing alcohol for the attendees, so basically doesn't this just boil down to them wanting to get paid while the attendees get drunk? Much the same as how baseball stadiums won't allow you to bring in anything more than peanuts and water but of course, if you want a slice of pizza or a hot pretzel they'll be more than happy to allow you to consume one in the stadium as long as you pay their price.

So with that, not a big deal at all, but something worth a little bit of punishment.

2) Girl is too inebriated upon arrival and her date curses sorority members and staff.

Standard procedure for these sorority events is that if you're too out of control, you are sent home in a taxi on your own dime rather than allowed in. They did the correct thing in arranging for a taxi and they even tried to get her date in line. The girls did everything right here. In this case, there is likely no problem identifying the individual in question, so he should be penalized individually under the code of conduct.

3) Couples (presumably) having sex in the family restroom

Not classy, but guess what? You have 'family' restrooms and they are doing their business outside of public view. Again, not classy but not illegal, nor is it anything that I would think could be sanctioned under the code of conduct.

4) Bathrooms trashed/girls vomiting

Not good, but some of this has to be expected with a formal. Girls vomiting doesn't surprise me at all, the bathrooms being in somewhat poor shape is unsurprising. I agree that there should be some punishment for this, but this isn't on the same level as people purposely pooping because they think it's funny like at the Pi Phi formal.

5) Guy tries to pee on exhibit and then service elevator

Again, something that was in no way condoned by the sorority, and I assure you they will (if they haven't already) give up his name in a heartbeat. So punish him for his pathetic behavior under the code of conduct. This isn't like the Pi Phi situation--the Fuzzie girls weren't sitting there laughing/cheering on this kid as he acted like a clown. The fuzzie I spoke at length with about this situation was livid about what he did. By no means was this encouraged by the group.

6) Drinks spilled on dance floor

Not surprising at all, although some punishment is warranted if it was done as nonchalantly as the letter suggests, rather than being the result of people bumping into each other as ~250-300 people try to dance. I've been to numerous formals/on numerous dance floors (including with some of the girls that attended this), and I've not seen someone just blatantly throw down their drink--the people nearby would kick their rear end for getting it on them.

I suspect, both from the tone of the letter and what I know, that this was largely a case of the Freedom Center staff being told what they were by the DJ and then seeing things the way they wanted to see them. Perhaps they have the same attitude as the poster I'm responding to, and saw a bunch of white girls come into their center and decided to make it a black/white thing. No doubt something should be done, but this incident didn't even come close to being on par with the Pi Phi situation. Yes, it should be punished more harshly considering the venue, but even then 2 years is overboard. Realistically, Fuzzie should have gotten social probation if it was just at a random place. Given it was at the freedom center, I would agree a semester (or maybe even year) long suspension is in order. However, if that is going to be the case, Pi Phi's suspension should be no less than 2 years. Having the punishments the way they are (reversed) is a complete misappropriation of justice.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by MUGreek2011

1) The students brought their own alcohol into the center.

Well, by their spokesman's own admission, they were providing alcohol for the attendees, so basically doesn't this just boil down to them wanting to get paid while the attendees get drunk? Much the same as how baseball stadiums won't allow you to bring in anything more than peanuts and water but of course, if you want a slice of pizza or a hot pretzel they'll be more than happy to allow you to consume one in the stadium as long as you pay their price.

So with that, not a big deal at all, but something worth a little bit of punishment.

There are many other reasons why a venue may restrict what is brought onto the premesis. Not the least would be that if they provide all the alcohol, they can also cut off the alcohol when things are getting out of hand.

I'm sure that restricting sources of alcohol has much more to do with risk management rather than getting rich. Besides, most venues have similar policies because it's either required by law or required by their insurance carrier. If a person drinks themselves to oblivion then dies, injures self or others, etc., the venue would still be held partially responsible even if that person didn't drink the alcohol that they provided.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by MUGreek2011

The university's stance on hazing is ludicrous, as under their mandates having pledges participate in any event as a group constitutes 'hazing'. As in, where there used to be a philanthropy basketball tournament between the fraternities pledge classes, this year the tournament had to be opened up to everyone so that it wouldn't be 'hazing'.

This has its roots in sororities making their pledges ONLY participate in Derby Days, Watermelon Bust, what have you. It IS hazing and has been looked on as such for a long time. (And I'm not someone who cries hazing at the drop of a hat.) These events are for the whole Greek community to help with philanthropy, not for putting pledges on display. Not to mention sending only the pledges to mixers - probably worse since alcohol is involved. So pledges AND initiated members play on the basketball teams. So what??? That's how it should be.

Originally Posted by MUGreek2011

While it may seem in the article above that Jerry is 'gunning' for one particular fraternity, in reality he just wants organizations to operate responsibly. He has put countless hours into making sure houses do succeed, but at the same time he will call a spade a spade when need be.

"Calling a spade a spade" is fine amongst your brothers or behind closed doors, but to do as he did in a public manner is not mature or professional. It makes him look like he has a big chip on his shoulder against Sigma Chi, and/or makes it look like sour grapes because the chapter he advises is losing rushees to them. I've never been to Miami, have no clue of the fraternity reputations there, and that's exactly how it comes across to me.

Originally Posted by MUGreek2011

On the other hand, Pi Phi showed a complete disregard and treated the staff at their formal as if they weren't even human, with one responding to a worker telling her a stall was out of order by saying, "You don't understand..I don't care."

As you're a dude who can pee anywhere, I think you're completely misinterpreting this statement. I've had times where I had to pee so bad I didn't care if a stall was out of order, either. It had nothing to do with the person who was informing me of the state of the stall.

Here's my question: if Pi Phi is such a raging bunch of alcholic brats who drag the whole Greek community down, why have they continued to exist? Why do they keep getting good sized pledge classes? Why do fraternities continue to mix with them? Obviously the only time that anyone truly gives a shit about what they do is when they get caught and it gets Miami's name dragged through the mud.