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  #1  
Old 04-29-2010, 07:03 AM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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Originally Posted by christiangirl View Post
Wait wait wait. So is this just for women considering abortion or for all women? Because that sounds like any dcotr who finds that a fetus has a birth defect doesn't have to tell ANY expecting parent---which sounds dumb as hell in my head and I really need someone to confirm that that's what I just read. I'm not even commenting on the rest until I can wrap my mind around that.
It is saying that the doctor does not have to inform you if he thinks your baby has birth defects period. The intent is to keep people from aborting babies who are severely deformed. A doctor wouldn't know whether parents might choose to abort if they know that their baby is going to be so severely deformed that it cannot live more than a few hours after birth or require lifetime institutionalization, etc. Is the next step to exempt a doctor if they choose not to tell you that your own life is in danger if the pregnancy continues???

As for the checklist, I think I'd check "Other" with "None of your business" (perhaps with an expletive too!) if given that form.

As for whether there is a separate human being involved, that is the part that is up to debate and that will always be a big difference between pro-lifers and pro-choicers. Some of us do not believe it is a separate human being until it can survive on its own without the host. The question of when life begins (along with religion) is the real root of this debate, always and nobody has a real, definitive answer.

Last edited by AGDee; 04-29-2010 at 07:11 AM.
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Old 04-29-2010, 08:22 AM
Kevin Kevin is offline
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Originally Posted by AGDee View Post
It is saying that the doctor does not have to inform you if he thinks your baby has birth defects period. The intent is to keep people from aborting babies who are severely deformed. A doctor wouldn't know whether parents might choose to abort if they know that their baby is going to be so severely deformed that it cannot live more than a few hours after birth or require lifetime institutionalization, etc. Is the next step to exempt a doctor if they choose not to tell you that your own life is in danger if the pregnancy continues???
Like most of this bill, this part is unconstitutional. The Oklahoma Constitution, believe it or not, is pretty progressive. These sorts of immunity statutes have been disposed with in the past and this one ought to be no different. The Oklahoma Constitution requires that for every wrong there shall be a remedy.

This particular statute is to prevent wrongful birth suits and the above is one such fact patter which would ordinarily lead to these sorts of suits.

Quote:
As for the checklist, I think I'd check "Other" with "None of your business" (perhaps with an expletive too!) if given that form.
This is maybe the one area where I don't see a problem with the bill. Nothing is personally identifiable. It could still be found that the purpose of this survey is intimidation and that'd probably be an undue burden situation. Or how about if the mother was unable to fill out the form because she had been raped and beaten into a coma and was now pregnant? Maybe the lack of a health of the mother exception is fatal here as well?

Quote:
As for whether there is a separate human being involved, that is the part that is up to debate and that will always be a big difference between pro-lifers and pro-choicers. Some of us do not believe it is a separate human being until it can survive on its own without the host. The question of when life begins (along with religion) is the real root of this debate, always and nobody has a real, definitive answer.
At the point of viability, according to present law, the state has a compelling interest in protecting the life of the child. As long as there's some health of the mother exception, prohibitions past week 20 or so on abortion could theoretically be permissible.

It's fairly likely ALL of these things will be struck down though. And in that event, this highly conservative, right of right legislature is simply funneling money (attorneys fees) into the coffers of the ACLU and other pro-choice legal consortiums. I'm sure these groups appreciate Oklahoma's efforts because like most non-profits, their donations are probably down because of the economy.

ETA: Just heard the District Judge assigned to the case is my cousin. She's a fair judge, will not be swayed by politics. Hella smart lady too. She'll make the right call.
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Last edited by Kevin; 04-29-2010 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:57 AM
squirrely girl squirrely girl is offline
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Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
As long as there's some health of the mother exception, prohibitions past week 20 or so on abortion could theoretically be permissible.
This 20 week crap is a BIG problem - viability isn't until around 24 weeks and even then it's a 50% survival chance with excellent medical care and a lot of luck. Trying to stay neutral here but states that keep trying to "push it back" are WRONG.
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:57 PM
Jill1228 Jill1228 is offline
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Originally Posted by aephi alum View Post
Can I just tell you how glad I am that I don't live in Oklahoma???

There is also no exemption for rape victims. Oh, you were raped and you got pregnant as a result and you want to abort? Too bad, you'll still have to get an ultrasound (likely a transvag) and sit through a lecture on how your "baby" is sooo beautiful. It must feel like being raped all over again.
Yup, gotta love the dildo cam NOT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGDee View Post

As for the checklist, I think I'd check "Other" with "None of your business" (perhaps with an expletive too!) if given that form.
I know, right?

This is clear and utter bullshit!

Last edited by Jill1228; 04-29-2010 at 12:59 PM.
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