Arizona governor signs immigration bill

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by agzg

No. CBP is the front line. They are not equivalent to State Police, but local police. But I've already answered that above.

It is not appropriate to equate CBP and ICE in the same breath. ICE has much broader responsibility and powers, and ICE may operate as far away from the borders as they like (they operate in all 50 states, including Hawai'i and Alaska). They often do NOT enforce the same laws, unless you qualify them ALL as "federal law."

CBP only operates in states that have borders. Which is many, but not all.

Edit: Try thinking of it this way: More often then not, CBP officials do not need security clearances. More often than not, ICE officials DO need security clearances. Of course that depends on job duties, so if anyone is thinking of applying for these positions, YMMV. Everyone goes through a thorough background check.

No, CBP is in every state that has an international border crossing, including airports that receive international flights.

BTW, they ALL need security clearances.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Where does border patrol operate? Do they patrol every street and do illegal immigrant check points throughout the state?

Not around here, they only operate within 75 miles of the border. After 9/11, there were checkpoints along two roads near my house. It tied up traffic beyond belief. The joke was, you knew it was up there because traffic was all backed up, so we would just turn into a subdivision and get to another major road to get around it. It was a hassle for a couple months, then it went away. I can't imagine they thought it would be effective when there were so many alternate routes around the checkpoints.

Originally Posted by epchick

It's mandatory now due to the new law....although I don't know how well it is enforced. It used to be that you only needed a passport when you head a certain amount of miles past a major city, but now you need one to cross.

Michigan has enhanced driver's licenses now that can be used as passports within North America, to come back over from Canada, mainly. I know a lot of people who travel back and forth frequently got the enhanced license so they don't have to carry their passport with them all the time. In particular, the boaters like them. It can handle water damage, a passport can't. I never
considered whether these are available in any state or just border states or what.

I can't imagine we'll ever have a huge problem with illegal Canadians coming here. They have it good up there!

[agzg]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

BTW, they ALL need security clearances.

Common misconception. CBP employees (especially those who patrol the spaces between points of entry) typically go through a Federal background investigation which can usually be done electronically - it's a more in-depth credit/criminal history check.

ICE and other federal employees that need any level of security clearances have to go through a 3-6 month process of polygraph tests, interviews of their families and friends, psychological testing, etc. Depending on the level, it gets pretty long and arduous. These last between 3 and 5 years and have to be renewed.

The clearance levels range from confidential (typically this is for jobs that deal with a lot of personal information, like financial data) to Top Secret/Secret Compartmentalized Information (usually reserved for national security issues but sometimes not).

CBP employees do not deal with the type of information that would require a security clearance to have. ICE employees do, especially because they've been tasked with aiding the FBI in the monitoring of foreign-born terrorist suspects (This is why I say that ICE and CBP do not really enforce the same laws).

To be 100% honest, many of the CBP agents that I know would probably not be able to get a security clearance beyond confidential for one reason or another. They'd have already been working with ICE if they had. CBP is not exactly the most desireable job in the federal government - it takes a certain kinda someone.

About the airports - that may be true, but CBP (especially the patrol) is less concerned with legitimate points of entry than they are with the spaces between. Generally, the spaces between are land-based. If you get stopped in an airport, it's a Customs and Border Protection agent. If you're getting stopped on land, away from a legitimate point of entry, it's Customs and Border patrol personnel (also part of CBP). Which is who we're talking about in this thread, mostly. My mistake for not clarifying.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by agzg

Common misconception. CBP employees (especially those who patrol the spaces between points of entry) typically go through a Federal background investigation which can usually be done electronically - it's a more in-depth credit/criminal history check.

CBP employees do not deal with the type of information that would require a security clearance to have. ICE employees do, especially because they've been tasked with aiding the FBI in the monitoring of foreign-born terrorist suspects (This is why I say that ICE and CBP do not really enforce the same laws).

About the airports - that may be true, but CBP (especially the patrol) is less concerned with legitimate points of entry than they are with the spaces between. Generally, the spaces between are land-based. If you get stopped in an airport, it's a Customs and Border Protection agent. If you're getting stopped on land, away from a legitimate point of entry, it's Customs and Border patrol personnel (also part of CBP). Which is who we're talking about in this thread, mostly. My mistake for not clarifying.

I'm going to have to still disagree on you in regards to the background investigation requirements. How did you come upon this "knowledge", are you an employee of CBP? The thing you aren't pointing out is that CBP is the parent org to several seperatly operating agencies, OFO and USBP being two of them. All of the agencies Have their own requirements and standards, so lumping everything into "CBP" doesn't work.

BTW- I've never heard a USBP Agent referred to as a Customs and Border Patrol Agent.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I'm going to have to still disagree on you in regards to the background investigation requirements. How did you come upon this "knowledge", are you an employee of CBP? The thing you aren't pointing out is that CBP is the parent org to several seperatly operating agencies, OFO and USBP being two of them. All of the agencies Have their own requirements and standards, so lumping everything into "CBP" doesn't work.

BTW- I've never heard a USBP Agent referred to as a Customs and Border Patrol Agent.

My source is USAjobs.gov. You can go ahead and look if you like, I already have and the overwhelming majority of jobs within CBP posted do not require a security clearance. Obviously jobs that are not posted for the public are different, but I've already covered that by saying things like "most often CBP employees do not need" and "most often ICE employees do need." And yes, I have personal experience with the security clearance process and hiring requirements of varying agencies, many of which are tasked to monitor and enforce immigration policy and law. All of the information that I've posted is open source, however.

Are you an employee of the CBP?

I've obviously made generalizations (Border Patrol Agent) because most people don't know the differing agencies involved in DHS or its immigration regulatory arms. I can start using the proper acronymns if you like, but I have a feeling then the conversation will be just you and I. Not that it makes a difference.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by agzg

My source is USAjobs.gov. You can go ahead and look if you like, I already have and the overwhelming majority of jobs within CBP posted do not require a security clearance requirement. And yes, I have personal experience with the security clearance process with varying agencies. All of the information that I've posted is open source, however.

Are you an employee of the CBP?

I've obviously made generalizations (Border Patrol Agent) because most people don't know the differing agencies involved in DHS or its immigration regulatory arms. I can start using the proper acronymns if you like, but I have a feeling then the conversation will be just you and I. Not that it makes a difference.

Challunge!

With so much drama in the CBP
It's kinda hard being PiKA2001 and agzg
So I, somehow, someway
Keep coming up with funky ass debates like every single day

I guess I got the answer to my border patrol question. LOL.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Challunge!

With so much drama in the CBP
It's kinda hard being PiKA2001 and agzg
So I, somehow, someway
Keep coming up with funky ass debates like every single day

I guess I got the answer to my border patrol question. LOL.

LOL.

My original point is the same - from what I can tell, this law is pretty redundant with the added bonus of being pre-disposed to perpetuate racial profiling.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by agzg

My source is USAjobs.gov. You can go ahead and look if you like, I already have and the overwhelming majority of jobs within CBP posted do not require a security clearance. Obviously jobs that are not posted for the public are different, but I've already covered that by saying things like "most often CBP employees do not need" and "most often ICE employees do need." And yes, I have personal experience with the security clearance process and hiring requirements of varying agencies, many of which are tasked to monitor and enforce immigration policy and law. All of the information that I've posted is open source, however.

I think we are looking at seperate sides of the spectrum. I'm thinking more of the enforcement arm ( in the field) of CBP and I think you are looking at the support specialist (office job) arm. I suppose someone who works in IT or accounting wouldn't need an extensive background check as opposed to someone with a gun and arrest authority, possibility of being bribed.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I think we are looking at seperate sides of the spectrum. I'm thinking more of the enforcement arm ( in the field) of CBP and I think you are looking at the support specialist (office job) arm. I suppose someone who works in IT or accounting wouldn't need an extensive background check as opposed to someone with a gun and arrest authority, possibility of being bribed.

No, I'm looking at the law enforcement arm (as that is what I have the most experience with). I think you're looking at the higher level (investigative) jobs while I'm looking at the patrolling groups - which have similar training to local law enforcement and therefore have similar background investigations.

They don't typically have Security Clearances (Confidential, Classified, Secret, Top Secret, etc.).

A thorough background investigation does not equal a Security Clearance.

People will office jobs are actually MORE likely to need a Security Clearance.

ICE agents (who are actively practicing law enforcement) are more likely to need a security clearance than Customs and Border PATROL (who are actively practicing law enforcment).