Arizona governor signs immigration bill

[Kevlar281]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No.

Yes

Originally Posted by DrPhil

75-100 miles from the border is "throughout the state?" Explain that to me. Aren't there more miles in the state than that?

Their reach goes past that and does. Just because they choose to an operate in an area with highest probability of success doesn't diminish their power throughout the states. Feel free to look up U.S. Immigration and Customs enforcement.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Ummm...what are you talking about?

I'm saying that proximity to the border doesn't make one ok and the other a civil rights violation.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Exactly -- they are random, which is fine. What isn't fine is stopping people on the non-random suspicion that they are here illegally, when they haven't shown signs of committing any other crime. It's hard to imagine any enforcement system where this law would impose equal burdens on white and Hispanic citizens of Arizona. If enforced as written, it's going to lead to lots of interrogation of Hispanic-looking people in large part because they appear Hispanic.

I'm waiting for some Native Americans to be harassed, and see if there's any discussion about illegal immigration The Navajo Nation is not to be trifled with.

To quote Smoke Signals:

Velma: You guys got your passports?
Thomas Builds-the-Fire: Passports?
Velma: Yeah, you're leavin' the rez and goin' into a whole different country, cousin.
Thomas Builds-the-Fire: But... but, it's the United States.
Lucy: Damn right it is! That's as foreign as it gets. Hope you two have your vaccinations.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

Feel free to look up U.S. Immigration and Customs enforcement.

No, be clearer and more concise in what you are trying to convey. You and Wikipedia said approximately 75 miles from the border for the border patrol. If border patrol's reach extends beyond that, YOU need to clearly state that and specify that you are still only talking about border patrol.

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

I'm saying that proximity to the border doesn't make one ok and the other a civil rights violation.

We aren't talking about the same thing.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

Their reach goes past that and does. Just because they choose to an operate in an area with highest probability of success doesn't diminish their power throughout the states. Feel free to look up U.S. Immigration and Customs enforcement.

ICE =/= CBP

They're both under DHS but try to call a Border Patrol agent an ICE agent or, even worse, and ICE agent a Border Patrol agent and watch smoke come out of their ears.

[Kevlar281]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No, be clearer and more concise in what you are trying to convey. You and Wikipedia said approximately 75 miles from the border for the border patrol. If border patrol's reach extends beyond that, YOU need to clearly state that and specify that you are still only talking about border patrol.

Border Patrols reach extends beyond 75 miles. That is an impartial list of permanent border check points and I've already stated Border Patrol sets up mobile/random check points beyond the permanent checkpoints.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

We aren't talking about the same thing.

Well to be fair I quoted AOII Angel and you responded.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by agzg

ICE =/= CBP

They're both under DHS but try to call a Border Patrol agent an ICE agent or, even worse, and ICE agent a Border Patrol agent and watch smoke come out of their ears.

Okay, thanks.

Now, if there's a such thing as ICE AND CBP, what the hell do we need Jane Cop for to do this? If someone gets arrested for non-immigration offenses and they find the person is an illegal immigrant (as someone stated earlier) that's fine. That includes people who are detected as illegal immigrants at the time of their arrest because they don't have I.D. and so forth. But...shouldn't that have been happening, anyway? Precincts and jurisdictions weren't ignoring this altogether so what was the point of this law beyond politics and making the voters happy?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

Border Patrols reach extends beyond 75 miles. That is an impartial list of permanent border check points and I've already stated Border Patrol sets up mobile/random check points beyond the permanent checkpoints.

You might be confused and that's okay.

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

Well to be fair I quoted AOII Angel and you responded.

That's what happens on message boards. You seem to have shifted the point because you were also thinking about what Angel was saying.

[Kevlar281]

Originally Posted by agzg

ICE =/= CBP

They're both under DHS but try to call a Border Patrol agent an ICE agent or, even worse, and ICE agent a Border Patrol agent and watch smoke come out of their ears.

I'd quantify CBP as State Police and ICE as the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Are they the same? No. Do they enforce the same laws? Yes. They both work for DHS which puts them in the same bowl of alphabet soup as far as I'm concerned.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Okay, thanks.

Now, if there's a such thing as ICE AND CBP, what the hell do we need Jane Cop for to do this? If someone gets arrested for non-immigration offenses and they find the person is an illegal immigrant (as someone stated earlier) that's fine. That includes people who are detected as illegal immigrants at the time of their arrest because they don't have I.D. and so forth. But...shouldn't that have been happening, anyway? Precincts and jurisdictions weren't ignoring this altogether so what was the point of this law beyond politics and making the voters happy?

There's also USCIS or INS. CBP::Local Police, USCIS::State Police, ICE::FBI, kinda. They work together but are not the same.

And no, we don't need police officers actively enforcing immigration laws beyond reporting illegal immigrants uncovered in the routine investigation of other crimes.

And yes, that should have been (and has been) happening.

And no, there is no other point beyond making the voters happy.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

I'd quantify CBP as State Police and ICE as the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Are they the same? No. Do they enforce the same laws? Yes. They both work DHS which puts them in the same bowl of alphabet soup as far as I'm concerned.

No. CBP is the front line. They are not equivalent to State Police, but local police. But I've already answered that above.

It is not appropriate to equate CBP and ICE in the same breath. ICE has much broader responsibility and powers, and ICE may operate as far away from the borders as they like (they operate in all 50 states, including Hawai'i and Alaska). They often do NOT enforce the same laws, unless you qualify them ALL as "federal law."

CBP only operates in states that have borders. Which is many, but not all.

Edit: Try thinking of it this way: More often then not, CBP officials do not need security clearances. More often than not, ICE officials DO need security clearances. Of course that depends on job duties, so if anyone is thinking of applying for these positions, YMMV. Everyone goes through a thorough background check.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

Does anyone know specifically what is acceptable enough identification to be left alone?

[agzg]

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

Does anyone know specifically what is acceptable enough identification to be left alone?

They may not leave you alone, but state-issued ID usually suffices to make them go away. When crossing borders it's always best to have a passport.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

I'll say it one more time. Yes they do.

Ummm...no. I can travel from my city all the way to LA/San Fran and pass through 1 immigration check point--which is right between Las Cruces, NM and Deming, NM. That is not "throughout the state." Plus, many times it isn't open or they just wave you on through.

The only checkpoint I've been stopped at was heading towards Carlsbad Caverns, and the dude was pretty nosey (although he was an ex-NFL player and pretty cute so it was ok :P )

Originally Posted by agzg

When crossing borders it's always best to have a passport.

It's mandatory now due to the new law....although I don't know how well it is enforced. It used to be that you only needed a passport when you head a certain amount of miles past a major city, but now you need one to cross.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

Typically within a 100 miles of the border.


They don't but nothing that I know of besides policy prevents them from doing so if they chose to.


Yes


I don't see how proximity to the border makes one acceptable and the other not.

/edit: to prevent double posting.

Hmm...You just don't want to see the difference. People expect to be checked when they go to a border crossing. It is part of the process. People do not expect to be put through credentials checks on the way to the grocery store or coming home from school. It is not reasonable to say that a RANDOM check near a border is the same as a check in a city on "suspicion for illegal status." Which one is more likely to be based on a discriminatory mind set?

Might I also add that it is well and good for a lily-white caucasian to say they wouldn't mind pulling out their ID to prove that they're an American citizen if asked, but YOU are not the one who will be asked over and over and over again. And if you were, you'd be b*tching like those annoying people at the airport that get randomly screened and start complaining that they "always" get screened.
And this is coming from a lily-white blonde who would never get stopped for suspicion of illegal status.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

"Papers, please"....remind you of a certain period in history?? I am appalled!!!!

Um, Apartheid anyone?