9 Charged after girl kills herself over bullying

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Why would it be hard for a teacher to know how to respond? I don't understand that either. Many teachers these days need more backbone too. They shouldn't let the kids bully them.

Speaking as a future teacher, I am not going to risk my job or even being sued...I'm going to find someone above me to handle it.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Why would it be hard for a teacher to know how to respond? I don't understand that either. Many teachers these days need more backbone too. They shouldn't let the kids bully them.

Administration doesn't want them coming after kids like that. I'm sure many of these teachers have backbones in their "real lives," but they aren't able to showcase that at work.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

I
So when you've tried every route and your kid is still being tortured every day, you'll stick it out because you don't want to be inconvenienced? Are you going to go kick a 12 year old's ass?

As my mom used to tell me, "That's cutting off your nose to spite your face". Even worse, it's at your child's expense.

To sit here and imply that I said it was a matter of being inconvenienced is ridiculous. It goes deeper than that. Changing schools is not that simple. And you have a right to demand and receive adequate protection for your child at school. There are so many avenues to pursue to get the situation taken care of. But I can see there is no point in discussing that because people just want to continue to make lame excuses.

As long as people have attitudes of simply letting the bullies have their way, it will continue.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Speaking as a future teacher, I am not going to risk my job or even being sued...I'm going to find someone above me to handle it.

When that kid is punching you in the face, you don't have time to find someone above you to handle it.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Administration doesn't want them coming after kids like that. I'm sure many of these teachers have backbones in their "real lives," but they aren't able to showcase that at work.

No, you are right about admin. However, my argument has always been that if adminis don't want teachers doing that, they need to provide good support networks for their teachers when it comes to disciplinary issues.

Kids feed off of the perceived lack of respect that teachers get from admins.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Back in graduate school, I had a conversation with one of my friends about this very topic. She had gone to some conference about how parenting shifted somewhere around the early to mid 80s. It used to be that people just had kids. They had them when they were young, without really really trying and if they couldn't have kids, they adopted (back when it was easy to do so) or they just didn't have kids.

Around the early 80s, it was a much bigger deal to have kids, for middle class families at least. For the first time, mainstream folks timed their careers around the best time to start a family. If it wasn't very easy, they spent thousands of dollars on difficult adoptions or reproductive technologies. Even if it was easy to have a kid, the safety of that baby became the center of their lives. This was around the time that "crib death," something that a lot of women experienced before, got the name SIDS. Remember the "Baby on Board" signs? Car seats weren't standard until around that time. In other words, people became so proud of their investment and creation that the kid could do no wrong.

I was born in '86 and have younger siblings, but we were raised pretty old school. Don't get me wrong, my mom was all about car seats, cute baby outfits, and sterilizing everything (at least until around the time of the last kid), but my parents were never under the impression we can do no wrong. I got away with a few things here and there but not much, and when I got caught I got CAUGHT. I wasn't willing to drink in high school even when my friends started to because I weighed "buzz" with "punishment" and wasn't willing to risk it.

I've got younger friends who have gotten arrested multiple times with no reaction from their parents. Their parents have helped them get out of these situations with not only no consequences at home but none legally, either. And it still floors me. If it were me and my parents...well my dad told me a long time ago that if I were in jail for a night and thought about calling him...don't bother.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

To sit here and imply that I said it was a matter of being inconvenienced is ridiculous. It goes deeper than that. Changing schools is not that simple. And you have a right to demand and receive adequate protection for your child at school. There are so many avenues to pursue to get the situation taken care of. But I can see there is no point in discussing that because people just want to continue to make lame excuses.

As long as people have attitudes of simply letting the bullies have their way, it will continue.

As long as people have attitudes of simply letting the bullied suffer, it will continue.

Not every family is able to send their child to a different school. But some are. And it really doesn't matter what rights you have if you can't get them. I hope no parent would let their child suffer for years because they think it's more important to "fight the good fight" than to protect them. As I've said repeatedly, this is of course a last resort. But if talking to the teacher, principal, board of education, bully's parents, and even bully doesn't work...and sometimes it doesn't...then parents should, if they're able, be prepared to protect their child. You can not guarantee that you'll get your way. Sometimes it's more important to let go of pride for the good of those you love than to save face.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

When that kid is punching you in the face, you don't have time to find someone above you to handle it.

Yeah. Great. But MOST of the time the kid is talking back or making threats. And I'm sure as hell not risking my future by giving them more of the same.

My kids better not be little hellions, but if my students are I'm going to find a way to make it work without getting fired.

[DrPhil]

That's funny because our middle school and high school teachers told us to sit our asses down in the 80s and 90s. Perhaps it doesn't work that way now with these entitled kids of the Internet generation.

But, badass kids were not rare in many of these school systems. Teachers and administration knew how to handle them (with some exceptions) and everyone knew that if YOUR child is a badass, take their badass out of school OR get over the fact that an adult will borderline cuss out your child. There are plenty of ways to instill power and authority without stooping to a child's level--but, some kids NEED their asses handed to them through rough talk and/or embarassment. That's the only way that they'll believe that fat meat is greasy.

Parents and administration can't have it both ways. You either control these badass kids or give teachers the clear to damn near cuss their asses out. You can fuss at the teacher for doing it, but acknowledge that the teacher should've have HAD to do that and YOU dropped the ball somewhere.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

When that kid is punching you in the face, you don't have time to find someone above you to handle it.

You would HAVE to find a way to get someone 'above you' to handle it. Yell out to a student to run and get a teacher, or whatever. Cause if you don't want to lose your job....like for eternity (cause no school would hire you after that) you best not lay a hand on that demon spawn.

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Sometimes parents can't know. My parents didn't have a clue what school was like for me when I was in junior high because I sure as hell wasn't going to tell them. There's only so much they can do short of removing the kids from the school, and that's a hard and sometimes impossible decision (it's great if they can afford private school or afford to move, but that's not always possible). It's up to the school to fix a bullying problem taking place on the campus during school hours.

Agree. If the school is aware of it as this one was.

My daughter did not tell us of the kids picking on her in middle school and now when I think back on it my heart breaks. I just didn't know or I would have set things right. Maybe that is why she didn't tell her mother or me. Parents are separated from their kids by an invisible wall at certain ages. I know I didn't tell my parents all that was going on with me at school.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Right.

I am more than able to defend myself, and thankfully, I've only had to get physical once in my life. I would have NEVER gone after an adult, though. You just didn't do that.

Now I see kids trying to punk teachers and administrators while they sit back and take it. It's sad.

Well this is the result of taking prayers and corporal punishment outta school

Heh!

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Well this is the result of taking prayers and corporal punishment outta school

Heh!

Maybe it's the beer in me, but I thought that said "capital punishment."

That would solve our problems lol

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Maybe my parents were more kick-ass but they never completely relinquished control over my outcomes to other adults.

Parents need to remember that they have more of a vested interest in their child's well-being than the school and cops ever do. Don't sit back and wait. That might require going to the school for an early lunch break, putting your child in a self-defense program, or taking the kid to a new school (I wouldn't want my kid in a school full of adult idiots, anyway).

Yep.

And I sort of see what DeepImpact is saying as well, which, I think, is that kids themselves should be prepared to do what they can to avoid continuing victimization or extending that victimization to suicide. The bullied kid is in no way to blame, but the bullied kid can be taught how and helped to cope.

I apologize if someone has already pointed this out, but we've got to remember that the actions that are taken, laws passed, etc, are still going to be implemented in the very imperfect world of the public schools, and that we need to adjust our expectations accordingly.

I think it's important to serve notice to schools that they are legally obligated to address this behavior, just as it was apparently important to make them realize they had to protect kids form sexual harassment by other students. But you know that this is going to lead to a lot of messy situations when schools are going to seem to be overreaching into students' personal lives, overreacting, etc, applying misguided zero tolerance rules, whatever.

Just as Dr. Phil noted about her own experience, sometimes bullying is not as clear cut as it appears to have been in this high profile cases. Sometimes the bullied kid is also a bully. It's likely to be a huge non-instructional time-suck for the schools to handle it, but apparently a necessary one.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by epchick

You would HAVE to find a way to get someone 'above you' to handle it. Yell out to a student to run and get a teacher, or whatever. Cause if you don't want to lose your job....like for eternity (cause no school would hire you after that) you best not lay a hand on that demon spawn.

You have a right to defend yourself using reasonable means. And if you handle it the right way, you won't have to worry about finding another job. That's one thing I tell teachers all the time: don't let the school system bully or manipulate you into thinking that you have to endure unwanted physical contact from students. Especially if you are threatened with bodily harm.