No place for average PNMs?

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

To be fair too, what you are hearing from nervous freshmen PNMs is never going to be true. Girls in our own chapters have a hard enough time keeping it straight. If you ask any PNM at any school that suffered even minor cuts, I guarantee you they will tell you that they just went through the most competitive rush that XYZ University has EVER had. EVER. Obviously top tier ABC may have had a very good idea of who they want to pledge, but I guarantee you that, no matter what campus, there are many chapters who are much more open-minded. And really, do you honestly believe that "XYZ who hasn't made quota in 3 years" started the rush process saying "these 100 girls are the only ones we are interested in bidding and if you aren't already in-state and BFF with at least 3 girls then we will cut you?" No. They are going to be open-minded about EVERY PNM, but they are still going to want women that promote their chapter in a positive way so they can grow. So it's probably not that every single recruitment chair at every single chapter had it out for your since Day #1.

Just go give an example, these are reasons why I, my sisters or my friends at other schools/chapters released women that would fall into "good on paper, good picture, etc" categories. If you saw their resume and their Facebook profile you may have been excited about pledging them until they did one of the following:
* Were you a complainer? "OMG, it's soooo hot...", "Haha sorry I'm sooo tired", "Yeah my roommate is kind of weird and lame", "The dorm food is sooo gross"...
* Did you rest on being shy and think that the burden was on the chapters to realize you'd be more outgoing starting three weeks in?
* Did you only bother getting recs for what your friend's sister's boyfriend told you were the three best sororities?
* Were you rude or disinterested to some chapters during the first round because you "so knew" you were going top tier? Top tier may not have wanted you, but would anybody else want a sister who acted bored either?
* Did you wear clothing in a color that made your normally beautiful skin look pasty? Was your dress silhouette more appropriate to 2003 than 2009?
* Did you talk about how much money you have? Nothing can make somebody look poorer than that...
* Did you only ask questions about the chapters GPA and philanthropy and housing points? We wanted a sister to have fun with too.
* Did you mention you are going to get your sororities letters tattooed on your ass? (This REALLY was brought up to somebody I know during recruitment in EVERY chapter the PNM visited).
* Did you bring up God every sentence to an atheist? Did you roll your eyes when a sister mentioned that XYZ also has a Bible study?
* Did some of your more questionable high school nights end up becoming known to sisters or alumni? Or did you even go so far as to leave the topless kegstand photo on Facebook?
* Were you an "eager beaver" who was trying too hard to be bubbly and "hug attacked" every other member you met?

There are SO many reasons why you may have had a bad rush even if you were average looking with a great GPA.

At the end of it though, blaming the sororities for your mistake will hinder you in life. Rush is a great way of seeing how you do in first impressions. These first impressions will affect your first dates, your job interviews, your impression on coworkers/in laws/professors, meeting with your prospective country club/arts guild/book club/PTA/intramural team/church/synagogue/children's friends parents...and maybe even the second/third/fourth time you rush. It would behoove you to not place the blame on others and sit down and analyze why you may have made some mistakes and how you can correct them for the next time first impressions matter.

I beg to defer - my daughter was just cut from all houses while rushing at a Big Ten University, she is an out of state student. She was a legacy at KKG, DG, Theta, and AXO...talk about devasting, her sister is currently a "sitting "sister at KKG" and she assumed that she was a shoo-in - she is a pretty (an Elite model), smart (at the University on a full scholarship for being a National Merit Scholar) and has a many hours logged in community service. She was also very familiar with playing the game of looking put together and telling the girls that she was very interested in their house. She did not mention many of her accomplishments, hoping the girls would like her for her personality. With a full slate of legacy recommendations, she was interviewed by all of the executive committee members - who told her that they couldn't wait to see her back the next day, only to cut her. Although she does not drink, she is not "preachy" about what others choose to do. She was looking for an opportunity for community service, leadership, and a place to belong...only to be shut out, I understand that most colleges conduct rush at the start of the school year in the hopes that girls will have a place to belong, but having been through the middle of the school year rush - I think it is a better option - if a girls does not make it in it does not lead the depression and disappointment. She is looking forward to finding a place to make her mark at her school, but it will not be in the greek community...she did not understand how all of the legacies on her dorm floor were asked to pledge and she was not. AphiAnna you obviously do not have any daughters.

Originally Posted by OTW

I sympathized with you until your last sentence.

Just because one does not have daughters does not mean they aren't qualified to give advice, even if it's advice you don't want to hear.

You are entitled to your opinion. I have noticed in my many years of having children through college that similiar thoughts are expressed by those made by thouse who have children that have not yet started school or have children that have not experienced multiple disappointments in life.

[ComradesTrue]

Originally Posted by kkgdgmom

You are entitled to your opinion. I have noticed in my many years of having children through college that similiar thoughts are expressed by those made by thouse who have children that have not yet started school or have children that have not experienced multiple disappointments in life.

First, my disclaimer. My daughter is not yet in college. Actually, she is only 10 months old. But, despite that, I do have hopes and dreams for her, so I can relate to a mom wanting her "baby girl" to be happy.

That being said, I do think you may be reading a bit much into Anna's post. I found her post to be well written, helpful, and even had a bit of sensitivity. Yes, after being cut by all houses there it can really hurt to read something like that, but I do feel that she presented it in a very considerate manner. She provided a very enlightened (perhaps a tad too enlightened for membership selection info) glimpse into what 18-22 year olds are noticing as they meet prospective members. I did not find anything tacky or mean-spirited about her post. Trust me, it could have been much, much worse. I also know many women in my organization with college-aged daughters who would have had the same thought as she did.

Again, I am very sorry for your daughters experience. Really, I am. However, I think that some of your pain may have been misplaced on Anna.

[Benzgirl]

Originally Posted by Blondie93

First, my disclaimer. My daughter is not yet in college. Actually, she is only 10 months old. But, despite that, I do have hopes and dreams for her, so I can relate to a mom wanting her "baby girl" to be happy.

hijack -
we need updated pictures of DD.
/hijack

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

To be fair too, what you are hearing from nervous freshmen PNMs is never going to be true. Girls in our own chapters have a hard enough time keeping it straight. If you ask any PNM at any school that suffered even minor cuts, I guarantee you they will tell you that they just went through the most competitive rush that XYZ University has EVER had. EVER. Obviously top tier ABC may have had a very good idea of who they want to pledge, but I guarantee you that, no matter what campus, there are many chapters who are much more open-minded. And really, do you honestly believe that "XYZ who hasn't made quota in 3 years" started the rush process saying "these 100 girls are the only ones we are interested in bidding and if you aren't already in-state and BFF with at least 3 girls then we will cut you?" No. They are going to be open-minded about EVERY PNM, but they are still going to want women that promote their chapter in a positive way so they can grow. So it's probably not that every single recruitment chair at every single chapter had it out for your since Day #1.

Just go give an example, these are reasons why I, my sisters or my friends at other schools/chapters released women that would fall into "good on paper, good picture, etc" categories. If you saw their resume and their Facebook profile you may have been excited about pledging them until they did one of the following:
* Were you a complainer? "OMG, it's soooo hot...", "Haha sorry I'm sooo tired", "Yeah my roommate is kind of weird and lame", "The dorm food is sooo gross"...
* Did you rest on being shy and think that the burden was on the chapters to realize you'd be more outgoing starting three weeks in?
* Did you only bother getting recs for what your friend's sister's boyfriend told you were the three best sororities?
* Were you rude or disinterested to some chapters during the first round because you "so knew" you were going top tier? Top tier may not have wanted you, but would anybody else want a sister who acted bored either?
* Did you wear clothing in a color that made your normally beautiful skin look pasty? Was your dress silhouette more appropriate to 2003 than 2009?
* Did you talk about how much money you have? Nothing can make somebody look poorer than that...
* Did you only ask questions about the chapters GPA and philanthropy and housing points? We wanted a sister to have fun with too.
* Did you mention you are going to get your sororities letters tattooed on your ass? (This REALLY was brought up to somebody I know during recruitment in EVERY chapter the PNM visited).
* Did you bring up God every sentence to an atheist? Did you roll your eyes when a sister mentioned that XYZ also has a Bible study?
* Did some of your more questionable high school nights end up becoming known to sisters or alumni? Or did you even go so far as to leave the topless kegstand photo on Facebook?
* Were you an "eager beaver" who was trying too hard to be bubbly and "hug attacked" every other member you met?

There are SO many reasons why you may have had a bad rush even if you were average looking with a great GPA.

At the end of it though, blaming the sororities for your mistake will hinder you in life. Rush is a great way of seeing how you do in first impressions. These first impressions will affect your first dates, your job interviews, your impression on coworkers/in laws/professors, meeting with your prospective country club/arts guild/book club/PTA/intramural team/church/synagogue/children's friends parents...and maybe even the second/third/fourth time you rush. It would behoove you to not place the blame on others and sit down and analyze why you may have made some mistakes and how you can correct them for the next time first impressions matter.

Originally Posted by kkgdgmom

I beg to defer - my daughter was just cut from all houses while rushing at a Big Ten University, she is an out of state student. She was a legacy at KKG, DG, Theta, and AXO...talk about devasting, her sister is currently a "sitting "sister at KKG" and she assumed that she was a shoo-in - she is a pretty (an Elite model), smart (at the University on a full scholarship for being a National Merit Scholar) and has a many hours logged in community service. She was also very familiar with playing the game of looking put together and telling the girls that she was very interested in their house. She did not mention many of her accomplishments, hoping the girls would like her for her personality. With a full slate of legacy recommendations, she was interviewed by all of the executive committee members - who told her that they couldn't wait to see her back the next day, only to cut her. Although she does not drink, she is not "preachy" about what others choose to do. She was looking for an opportunity for community service, leadership, and a place to belong...only to be shut out, I understand that most colleges conduct rush at the start of the school year in the hopes that girls will have a place to belong, but having been through the middle of the school year rush - I think it is a better option - if a girls does not make it in it does not lead the depression and disappointment. She is looking forward to finding a place to make her mark at her school, but it will not be in the greek community...she did not understand how all of the legacies on her dorm floor were asked to pledge and she was not. AphiAnna you obviously do not have any daughters.

First of all, I am sorry for your daughter and the fact that she didn't find her "home". I would encourage her to look into COB opportunities if they are available.

That being said, I don't see how her experience would give you reason to completely disagree with APhiAnna's entire post (or assume that she doesn't have children).

As has been said (to other parents/friends of PNMs), you weren't there with your daughter during recruitment, so you really don't know the reasons why she was cut. Maybe it was because she fell under one of the bulleted points that APhiAnna mentioned, or maybe she just slipped through the cracks. But APhiAnna's post simply said that to blame a poor recruitment outcome on the sororities is the wrong thing to do. The system may be flawed in some ways, but that's not the fault of the individual sororities.

[annabella]

Originally Posted by kkgdgmom

She was also very familiar with playing the game of looking put together and telling the girls that she was very interested in their house.

Girls who try too hard are a huge turn-off.

Also it sounds like you're either a huge B or oblivious to the fact that your daughter is.

[DubaiSis]

Originally Posted by kkgdgmom

I beg to defer - my daughter was just cut from all houses while rushing at a Big Ten University, she is an out of state student. She was a legacy at KKG, DG, Theta, and AXO...talk about devasting, her sister is currently a "sitting "sister at KKG" and she assumed that she was a shoo-in - she is a pretty (an Elite model), smart (at the University on a full scholarship for being a National Merit Scholar) and has a many hours logged in community service.

There's a serious gap in this story. I'd like to know at what point she was cut all the way out. I don't think there's a Big 10 campus that doesn't have at least 1 sorority that is struggling enough to take virtually anyone who meets the criteria. Again (and this is said so many times on GC) was she literally cut from every house? At the University of Iowa, all the houses you mentioned are pretty prestigious. But there are at least 2 or 3 chapters who are struggling. The only way she'd have been cut from my chapter, as a for instance, is if she was unbelievably rude. And out of state would have no impact at a Big 10 school. Out of state is far and away too common at those schools to have an impact. If nothing else, someone from an unusual state would have a benefit from being different and memorable.

If she's at a Big 10 school and got cut out, I'd suggest she look at COB, and accept that she's going into a lower tier house. If she's all that, she'll be able to make an impact on the chapter immediately.

[Zillini]

KKGDGMom, I'm sorry your daughter is hurt and disappointed. I understand why you are feeling the same way for her.

Obviously I was not there but more importantly please keep in mind you were not there either. You do not know how well she did or didn't relate to the actives during the parties, nor do you know what happened during the membership selection meetings. Your daughter may be an amazing young woman, but maybe that didn't shine through. Some possible explanations:

Originally Posted by kkgdgmom

-she is an out of state student.

Perhaps nobody knew her very well.

She was a legacy at KKG, DG, Theta, and AXO...talk about devasting, her sister is currently a "sitting "sister at KKG"

By "sitting sister" I assume that means an in house, as in currently active, sister. The other Chapters may have assumed she would go KKG. Fair or not, this is a common assumption with in house sisters. She may have been released because other Chapters thought they had no chance, so why not give that invite to someone who they have a better chance with.

As for why the in house legacy Chapter released her, it happens. Even that is no guarantee. Perhaps your older daughter simply didn't have enough "pull" with the other actives?

I'm also wondering if the older sister invited her to campus to visit last year? This would have given the actives a better chance to get to know her. If she did visit and knew the actives, then perhaps they didn't feel she would fit in.

and she assumed that she was a shoo-in

You can never assume anything. Perhaps she came across as cocky without even realizing it. That can be a real turn off.

she is a pretty (an Elite model), smart (at the University on a full scholarship for being a National Merit Scholar) and has a many hours logged in community service.

I have seen some less competitive Chapters assume because of all these great traits that they have no chance with a PNM. Might as well release her and give that spot to someone who they have a better shot of actually accepting a bid.

She was also very familiar with playing the game of looking put together and telling the girls that she was very interested in their house.

That is quite telling IMO. She viewed it as "playing a game" saying she is interested. Perhaps she did not come across as sincere, at least not sincere enough to overcome some of the other possible issues.

She did not mention many of her accomplishments, hoping the girls would like her for her personality.

Why wouldn't she tell the actives about all the great things she has done and how she could benefit their Chapter? Personality is important, but if a gazillion PNMs have a great personality they will choose those who are the "whole package": great personality, strong resume, strong GPA, etc.

With a full slate of legacy recommendations

Did she have Recs to all the Chapters or just her legacy Chapters?

, she was interviewed by all of the executive committee members

"Interviewed by the Exec Committee"? I'm not sure what that means in a Formal Recruitment setting. Are you saying she was introduced to Exec officers? A lot of Chapters introduce as many PNMs as possible to Exec officers. Again, that is no guarantee of anything.

- who told her that they couldn't wait to see her back the next day, only to cut her.

While saying they want to see her the next day is a Recruitment violation, it too isn't a guarantee. It might have been a honest slip up. It might have been that they truly meant that but it was only the opinion of a few members. A few members can be outvoted by the rest of the Chapter.

Keep in mind, the goal of every Chapter is for every PNM to leave thinking the Chapter loved them. Nobody wants a PNM to feel she is not liked or wanted. Besides as said before, perhaps those actives who recruited her did like her and want her, but there were other PNMs who were liked/wanted more by the whole Chapter. Granted I don't know the membership selection process any other GLO besides my own, but it is safe to say it is a democratic process in that it is a majority decision.

Although she does not drink, she is not "preachy" about what others choose to do.

That's great. Did she convey this to the Chapters? That might have back fired. Talking about alcohol and her opinions is not a good topic during Recruitment no matter what her opinion is.

She was looking for an opportunity for community service, leadership, and a place to belong...only to be shut out

That's great too. However, you stated that she did not talk about her accomplishments. How was the Chapter supposed to know what she has done and what she wants to do if she doesn't tell them? Besides, most PNMs are looking for an opportunity to do all those things as well.

she did not understand how all of the legacies on her dorm floor were asked to pledge and she was not.

You cannot compare one PNMs situation or results to another.

AphiAnna you obviously do not have any daughters.

I don't know that she does or doesn't, do you? Besides, having or not having daughters does not preclude anyone from providing good advice or explanations about Recruitment. The only thing having a daughter can do is provide someone with a better understanding of a parent's pain when their child is in pain. But even those without kids can still relate to that.

[APhiAnna]

Originally Posted by kkgdgmom

AphiAnna you obviously do not have any daughters.

I would hope I don't have any daughters, I'm 21.