No place for average PNMs?

[APhiAnna]

To be fair too, what you are hearing from nervous freshmen PNMs is never going to be true. Girls in our own chapters have a hard enough time keeping it straight. If you ask any PNM at any school that suffered even minor cuts, I guarantee you they will tell you that they just went through the most competitive rush that XYZ University has EVER had. EVER. Obviously top tier ABC may have had a very good idea of who they want to pledge, but I guarantee you that, no matter what campus, there are many chapters who are much more open-minded. And really, do you honestly believe that "XYZ who hasn't made quota in 3 years" started the rush process saying "these 100 girls are the only ones we are interested in bidding and if you aren't already in-state and BFF with at least 3 girls then we will cut you?" No. They are going to be open-minded about EVERY PNM, but they are still going to want women that promote their chapter in a positive way so they can grow. So it's probably not that every single recruitment chair at every single chapter had it out for your since Day #1.

Just go give an example, these are reasons why I, my sisters or my friends at other schools/chapters released women that would fall into "good on paper, good picture, etc" categories. If you saw their resume and their Facebook profile you may have been excited about pledging them until they did one of the following:
* Were you a complainer? "OMG, it's soooo hot...", "Haha sorry I'm sooo tired", "Yeah my roommate is kind of weird and lame", "The dorm food is sooo gross"...
* Did you rest on being shy and think that the burden was on the chapters to realize you'd be more outgoing starting three weeks in?
* Did you only bother getting recs for what your friend's sister's boyfriend told you were the three best sororities?
* Were you rude or disinterested to some chapters during the first round because you "so knew" you were going top tier? Top tier may not have wanted you, but would anybody else want a sister who acted bored either?
* Did you wear clothing in a color that made your normally beautiful skin look pasty? Was your dress silhouette more appropriate to 2003 than 2009?
* Did you talk about how much money you have? Nothing can make somebody look poorer than that...
* Did you only ask questions about the chapters GPA and philanthropy and housing points? We wanted a sister to have fun with too.
* Did you mention you are going to get your sororities letters tattooed on your ass? (This REALLY was brought up to somebody I know during recruitment in EVERY chapter the PNM visited).
* Did you bring up God every sentence to an atheist? Did you roll your eyes when a sister mentioned that XYZ also has a Bible study?
* Did some of your more questionable high school nights end up becoming known to sisters or alumni? Or did you even go so far as to leave the topless kegstand photo on Facebook?
* Were you an "eager beaver" who was trying too hard to be bubbly and "hug attacked" every other member you met?

There are SO many reasons why you may have had a bad rush even if you were average looking with a great GPA.

At the end of it though, blaming the sororities for your mistake will hinder you in life. Rush is a great way of seeing how you do in first impressions. These first impressions will affect your first dates, your job interviews, your impression on coworkers/in laws/professors, meeting with your prospective country club/arts guild/book club/PTA/intramural team/church/synagogue/children's friends parents...and maybe even the second/third/fourth time you rush. It would behoove you to not place the blame on others and sit down and analyze why you may have made some mistakes and how you can correct them for the next time first impressions matter.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

In the age of quota and RFM, I am having a hard time understanding how a PNM with nothing “wrong” with her except being out of state and/or not having recs can get cut from ALL chapters at a competitive campus. Note I am NOT talking about a PNM who gets cut by all chapters but one or two.

By nothing “wrong”, I mean this theoretical PNM is simply average (not poor) in the area of grades, involvement, looks, and conversation, and she does not have a reputation issue. Especially at academically competitive universities, the chances of a PNM looking poor on paper are slim because she wouldn't have been admitted to the university in the first place.

Quota is set to optimize the number of PNMs joining chapters and the number of chapters making quota. Quota is proportional to the number of PNMs in recruitment.

With RFM, the “top” chapters are forced to make the steepest cuts the first round, and the “bottom” chapters are advised to make minimal cuts throughout the process, cutting PNMs who do not meet their membership standards (poor grades, poor conversation/personality, poor personal presentation, etc). This optimizes the placement rate.

Even if this theoretical PNM is from out of state and/or does not have recs (read: unknown), “bottom” chapters have the luxury of not being forced to make steep cuts and therefore have time to get to know her through conversation.

Is there no place for a PNM who is average and unknown? I am not talking about “top 6” at UT or “Old Row” at Bama, etc. I know this may be treading into MS territory, but do “bottom” chapters at competitive schools cut PNMs when there seems to be “no reason” (none of the reasons discussed above) to cut her?

If there are a lot of PNMs getting cut for “no reason”, that’s usually when a Panhellenic looks to Extension.

Perhaps the PNMs/mothers of PNMs released by ALL chapters are simply not telling us on GC any “reason” they could have been cut. And it’s also likely that PNMs who get cut from all chapters are overrepresented on GC because those in the know/with connections don’t need to come to GC for information.

im total lane swerving, but i feel like regardless of council this will apply.



while it's great to go into Rush with an optimistic view about one's PNM-ness, if youre not coming with something extra, who's going to remember you? and this is good or bad extra, which is why there are a small percentage at the "oh hayle to the naw" end and the "omg this girl fart smells like rainbows and sunshines, give her a bid now" ends--those PNMs had to have done something out of the ordinary to stand out. Or, on paper, they were so extraordinary (whether its 4.0/team captain or 2.5/general slacker) their fate was kinda written in the sand from the beginning.

i dont think you have a hard time understanding, i think you have a hard time believing and accepting it. especially when there are posters who are outright saying things like "if you're wearing a 5-year old dress or complain about the hear, its a wrap."

Having a "place" for "average PNMs" is like an place for average people in life in all situations-dating/relationships, classes/grades, promotions, etc. There's a place for the average but opportunity doesnt always knock, or as often. It's called "competitive" for a reason.

[myopicsunflower]

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

If you saw their resume and their Facebook profile you may have been excited about pledging them

...or what you saw on their Facebook profile might have made given you reason to cut them.

* Were you rude or disinterested to some chapters during the first round because you "so knew" you were going top tier?

...or if you spoke rudely about ABC at XYZ's party because you "so knew" you were going XYZ.

* Did you mention you are going to get your sororities letters tattooed on your ass? (This REALLY was brought up to somebody I know during recruitment in EVERY chapter the PNM visited).

O_O

Did this PNM pledge anywhere???

* Did some of your more questionable high school nights end up becoming known to sisters or alumni?

This goes back to recs. Everyone knows that recs are important and that, at some schools, you need them for every house. But you want GOOD recs, and because alumnae send recs directly to chapters, you don't know if an alumna wrote a rec that said "This girl is a big bowl of awesome and would be a tremendous asset to your chapter" or a "no rec."

Hypothetical situations:

* You ask your math teacher to write a rec for you, because you've gotten good grades and have good rapport with her. Your teacher likes you well enough, but she has also caught wind of how you had a few weekend benders, and she's heard from teacher lunchroom talk about how you act with peers in other classes. As much as your math teacher likes you as a student, she may not think you are a fit for her sorority.

* You send your resume to the local Alumnae Panhellenic. Anna Alumna from XYZ doesn't know you personally, but she sees that you go to Local High School, and her friend's daughter went there. So Anna Alumna makes a phone call. Her friend's daughter may have had bad experiences with you, or she may have heard bad things about you. Anna Alumna is concerned. She may write a "no rec," or she may write one that is tentative. Either way, that rec is not a glowing one, and it could lead to a cut during rush.

Rush is a great way of seeing how you do in first impressions. These first impressions will affect your first dates, your job interviews, your impression on coworkers/in laws/professors, meeting with your prospective country club/arts guild/book club/PTA/intramural team/church/synagogue/children's friends parents...and maybe even the second/third/fourth time you rush. It would behoove you to not place the blame on others and sit down and analyze why you may have made some mistakes and how you can correct them for the next time first impressions matter.

Absolutely.

[UGAalum94]

I think there are places for average PNMs but "average" isn't where a lot of us on the outside really think it is. Grade inflation and higher admission standards at some schools make a GPA that used to seem awesome only average and a list of activities that used to be dazzling only average.

So a girl who used to be average in GPA and activities is now actually below average for the campus but alumnae and parents may not realize it. And this is without getting in to how a PNMs reputation might not be "average" and adults might not know it.

I don't quite look at things like Baci does. I think looks are a component and will help a girl a lot if the other factors are all in place, but at my campus a girl who was "only" good looking probably would have been looking at middle chapters on down. For top chapters, you apparently needed looks, activities, GPA, awesome personality, and often a certain kind of family background. Sometime even average looking girls who were excellent people ended up in top chapters.

As far as the OP, once you take the aspect of grade and credential inflation out of the picture, I think the majority of girls getting bids are "average" for the campus. When I look at the girls I know who rush at UGA and Auburn, what separates out the PNMs who end up at top chapters from mid and low tier chapters ultimately comes down to high school popularity. I think it's mainly that the girls who are already at college want the most popular girls from their high schools but it may also be that the really popular girls know how to turn it out in social situations like rush.

[AGDee]

I would think some of this may have to do with who the PNM cuts early in her recruitment too. If there are 14 chapters and they have to go from 14-10-7-3, for example, it's possible that for second parties, 2 top chapters dropped the PNM and the PNM dropped the bottom 2 chapters to go to 10 parties. The next cuts, perhaps 2 more of the top chapters drop the PNM and the PNM drops the bottom 1, getting the middle 7 parties to attend. It's possible THEN that those middle 7, having to make major cuts before Pref would all cut the PNM. Therefore, there could have been 3 chapters that might have really liked and wanted her, but she cut them early on.

It's also possible that she lacked enthusiasm for those bottom chapters and the chapters could tell. You don't really want someone who doesn't want you, no matter how small you are.

[UGAalum94]

AGDee, what you describe is certainly possible and I think Carnation has observed that pattern in real life when she's talked about how it's actually better to get hard after first round than second, for those reasons.

But I'm still kind of skeptical like other people earlier in the thread. The number of girls completely cut out or dropped from recruitment is so small at the places it gets reported.

Your hypothetical scenario requires seven chapters to almost be at an even place in RFM or just that she be the most unlucky girl in the world to miss the bid list at every one but not get released earlier from some of the seven.

I think that some girls may truly "slip thorough the cracks" and get dropped even though there's nothing wrong with them, but I think it's far more likely that the majority of "average" PNMs get placed.

[jamalter]

This is an interesting thread for a mom of a PNM at Alabama, who is trying very hard to understand the whole process. I've never been involved with greek life, and my daughter certainly was not "prepared" like I'm reading so many were. This leads me to my thoughts on why my daughter had such an easy time with the process as opposed to some very sad stories that I've read in GC, and may serve as advice to other PNMs trying to understand how to be successful.

My daughter really is "average" at least compared to some I've read about on here. She had a 3.3 GPA, was captain of her volleyball team, had a few minor clubs/organizations that she was involved in (no leadership roles however), and went to a small private school where her rank was right in the middle. She is cute, but not drop dead gorgeous. She didn't take recs seriously, and had recs for less than half the houses. In fact, up until about a week before rush, she was undecided if she was going to go through with it. But at Bama, if you rush, you move in a week early, and this sounded good to her, so she started the process. She had no idea about the different houses and therefore, had a completely open mind going in. I think this is what differentiated her. She pretty much enjoyed every house she visited, maximized all her options every step of the way, and in the end went to the max of 3 pref parties and loved them all.

Had I read GC prior to this process, I would have told her not to bother - she would never make the cut. Bama is too competitive and she wouldn't stand a chance. So why do I think she was sucessful? Because she was relaxed, open minded and never stressed about not making the cut at this house or the other. And that's what I would stress to all new PNMs.

Having said this, no offense, but I still think the process is bizarre.

[sassygal]

Originally Posted by jamalter

This is an interesting thread for a mom of a PNM at Alabama, who is trying very hard to understand the whole process. I've never been involved with greek life, and my daughter certainly was not "prepared" like I'm reading so many were. This leads me to my thoughts on why my daughter had such an easy time with the process as opposed to some very sad stories that I've read in GC, and may serve as advice to other PNMs trying to understand how to be successful.

My daughter really is "average" at least compared to some I've read about on here. She had a 3.3 GPA, was captain of her volleyball team, had a few minor clubs/organizations that she was involved in (no leadership roles however), and went to a small private school where her rank was right in the middle. She is cute, but not drop dead gorgeous. She didn't take recs seriously, and had recs for less than half the houses. In fact, up until about a week before rush, she was undecided if she was going to go through with it. But at Bama, if you rush, you move in a week early, and this sounded good to her, so she started the process. She had no idea about the different houses and therefore, had a completely open mind going in. I think this is what differentiated her. She pretty much enjoyed every house she visited, maximized all her options every step of the way, and in the end went to the max of 3 pref parties and loved them all.

Had I read GC prior to this process, I would have told her not to bother - she would never make the cut. Bama is too competitive and she wouldn't stand a chance. So why do I think she was sucessful? Because she was relaxed, open minded and never stressed about not making the cut at this house or the other. And that's what I would stress to all new PNMs.

Having said this, no offense, but I still think the process is bizarre.

I thought your response was refreshing to read. I always tell folks that going through recruitment is like a job interview. Your interviewing the Chapters just as much as they are interviewing you. It is a mutual selection process. Thanks for sharing your daughters story.

[Cloudburst2000]

Originally Posted by jamalter

This is an interesting thread for a mom of a PNM at Alabama, who is trying very hard to understand the whole process. I've never been involved with greek life, and my daughter certainly was not "prepared" like I'm reading so many were. This leads me to my thoughts on why my daughter had such an easy time with the process as opposed to some very sad stories that I've read in GC, and may serve as advice to other PNMs trying to understand how to be successful.

My daughter really is "average" at least compared to some I've read about on here. She had a 3.3 GPA, was captain of her volleyball team, had a few minor clubs/organizations that she was involved in (no leadership roles however), and went to a small private school where her rank was right in the middle. She is cute, but not drop dead gorgeous. She didn't take recs seriously, and had recs for less than half the houses. In fact, up until about a week before rush, she was undecided if she was going to go through with it. But at Bama, if you rush, you move in a week early, and this sounded good to her, so she started the process. She had no idea about the different houses and therefore, had a completely open mind going in. I think this is what differentiated her. She pretty much enjoyed every house she visited, maximized all her options every step of the way, and in the end went to the max of 3 pref parties and loved them all.

Had I read GC prior to this process, I would have told her not to bother - she would never make the cut. Bama is too competitive and she wouldn't stand a chance. So why do I think she was sucessful? Because she was relaxed, open minded and never stressed about not making the cut at this house or the other. And that's what I would stress to all new PNMs.

Having said this, no offense, but I still think the process is bizarre.

I know this post is older, but this was pretty much my experience going through rush. I had good grades (was third in my high school class) and very involved in extracurricular activities. I was an average-looking girl who most people called 'cute'.

I went to a non-Southern college where Greek life wasn't huge but there were several sororities. I was actually a legacy of two of the seven sororities as my sisters were members at different colleges. That said, I didn't know anything about the 'rankings' of the sororities going into rush so had a very open mind.

At my school, the sorority 'rankings' were:

Top Tier
Skittles (legacy)
Snickers
Sugar Babies

Mid-tier
Milkyway

Bottom tier
Butterfinger (legacy)
Starburst
Jolly Ranchers

After the first round of parties, my rankings were:
Milkway (mid-tier)*
Starburst (bottom-tier)*
Skittles (top-tier)(legacy)*
Jolly Ranchers (bottom-tier)**
Butterfinger (bottom-tier)(legacy)**
Snickers (top-tier)***
Sugar Babies (top-tier)***

Sororities with one star were the ones I really liked after the first round. I liked them pretty equally at this point. The sororities with two stars I didn't dislike but they didn't make much of an impression during the first round of parties. The two with three stars were the sororities that I did not like. I did not like the girls I talked to at these two parties. One of the sororities had me talk to a girl I knew from high school who I had never cared for and the other sorority only asked about my parents jobs, how much money we had, etc which was a huge turn-off.

For the second round of parties, you could go to a maximum of five which was fine by me. I went to the five sororities that I ranked as my top five. I did not go back to the two top-tier sororities that I didn't like during the first round of parties.

After the second round of parties, my rankings were:

Milkway (mid-tier)*
Starburst (bottom-tier)*
Skittles (top-tier)(legacy)**
Jolly Ranchers (bottom-tier)***
Butterfinger (bottom-tier)(legacy)****

The two sororities with one star were tied for first place. I liked them pretty equally. The sorority with two stars I still really liked but not quite as much as the first two. The sorority with three stars again I did not dislike, the girls were fine but their party was kind of boring and the girl I talked to wasn't a great conversationalist, but I did not dislike them and would have gone to their preference had I not gotten invites to my top three. The lone sorority with four stars made a poor impression. I think they were trying to overdo it since I was a legacy, but I had girls hanging all over me and crying in my hair. It was majorly awkward and pretty creepy. They also came across as super fake. I phoned my sister and said I was dropping her sorority and hoped she wasn't offended. She told me not to worry because she would never have joined this sorority if she had gone to school here. Her chapter had done some sisterhood events with this chapter and my sister didn't care for them...whew!

So for preference, you could go back to a max of three sororities, I went back to my top three choices...one 'top-tier', one 'mid-tier', and one 'bottom-tier'. I still knew nothing about the rankings and wouldn't participate in the gossip about it because I wanted to join where I felt most comfortable regardless of their ranking.

After preference, when filling out my bid card, it went like this:

1. Starburst (bottom-tier)
2. Milkyway (mid-tier)
3. Skittles (top-tier)(legacy)

And I got my first choice. I had so many people ask why I didn't list Skittles as my first since I would likely get a bid as a legacy and they were the 'top' sorority on campus and 'Don't you want to be in the best sorority???' I was like 'I AM in the BEST sorority for ME'. I never regretted my decision to join a 'bottom-tier' sorority even though I had other options.

After spending five years on campus, I can honestly say I likely would have been happy in any of the sororities with the exceptions of Snickers (top-tier) and Butterfinger (bottom-tier)(legacy). The girls in Snickers were very superficial and I was honestly never really friends with any of them. They were probably the most clique-y group on campus. Butterfinger was apparently the trouble-maker sorority on campus and I was right when I thought they acted very fake during the second round of parties. Glad I followed my gut and didn't feel the need to go their preference simply because I was a legacy. I would have hated being in that sorority. And this would have knocked out one of my preferred sororities out of the running for preference parties. Anyhoo, I know I didn't like Sugar Babies during rush but I did end up having several friends from this sorority so first impressions are not always correct! I still don't think they would have been the best match for me so I am not sorry I dropped them but they turned out to be fine (though I still couldn't stand that one girl from my high school).

Like I said I had several friends in every sorority (with the exception of Snickers and Butterfinger), and could have been happy in any of those five. However, my 'bottom-tier' sorority was the best fit for me and I never regretted it. The rankings are pretty dumb IMO. I know one of the sororities was ranked high by the frats because they 'put out' and on was ranked high pretty much because they had the biggest house so be wary of rankings. They might be ranked higher for not the best reasons. Who cares who has the biggest house if the girls who live there aren't the best? IMO, forget about rankings when you start rush and don't participate in gossip about which houses are ranked the best. Join the sorority that YOU feel most comfortable at, not where other people think you should join. These are the girls who you will be spending the next 4+ years with so make the decision that it best for YOU. Going into rush with no pre-conceived notions is the best thing to do, IMHO.

[APhiAnna]

Originally Posted by myopicsunflower

O_O

Did this PNM pledge anywhere???

You know what is outrageous? She did get a bid to apparently the struggling chapter on their campus. But I know for a fact that she had brought this up at multiple chapters...I had two friends that went to this same university and they were in different chapters, and they discussed how this girl had become sort of a "rush legend" in both their sororities. I guess she had the school's logo on one cheek and told everybody, and then said she would tattoo the letters on the other one. There was even a facebook picture of her showing the school logo for some time. No word on if she got the letters in the end. But still...I mean, really?

[dukemama]

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

No word on if she got the letters in the end.

Good one!

[AXOrushadvisor]

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

To be fair too, what you are hearing from nervous freshmen PNMs is never going to be true. Girls in our own chapters have a hard enough time keeping it straight. If you ask any PNM at any school that suffered even minor cuts, I guarantee you they will tell you that they just went through the most competitive rush that XYZ University has EVER had. EVER. Obviously top tier ABC may have had a very good idea of who they want to pledge, but I guarantee you that, no matter what campus, there are many chapters who are much more open-minded. And really, do you honestly believe that "XYZ who hasn't made quota in 3 years" started the rush process saying "these 100 girls are the only ones we are interested in bidding and if you aren't already in-state and BFF with at least 3 girls then we will cut you?" No. They are going to be open-minded about EVERY PNM, but they are still going to want women that promote their chapter in a positive way so they can grow. So it's probably not that every single recruitment chair at every single chapter had it out for your since Day #1.

Just go give an example, these are reasons why I, my sisters or my friends at other schools/chapters released women that would fall into "good on paper, good picture, etc" categories. If you saw their resume and their Facebook profile you may have been excited about pledging them until they did one of the following:
* Were you a complainer? "OMG, it's soooo hot...", "Haha sorry I'm sooo tired", "Yeah my roommate is kind of weird and lame", "The dorm food is sooo gross"...
* Did you rest on being shy and think that the burden was on the chapters to realize you'd be more outgoing starting three weeks in?
* Did you only bother getting recs for what your friend's sister's boyfriend told you were the three best sororities?
* Were you rude or disinterested to some chapters during the first round because you "so knew" you were going top tier? Top tier may not have wanted you, but would anybody else want a sister who acted bored either?
* Did you wear clothing in a color that made your normally beautiful skin look pasty? Was your dress silhouette more appropriate to 2003 than 2009?
* Did you talk about how much money you have? Nothing can make somebody look poorer than that...
* Did you only ask questions about the chapters GPA and philanthropy and housing points? We wanted a sister to have fun with too.
* Did you mention you are going to get your sororities letters tattooed on your ass? (This REALLY was brought up to somebody I know during recruitment in EVERY chapter the PNM visited).
* Did you bring up God every sentence to an atheist? Did you roll your eyes when a sister mentioned that XYZ also has a Bible study?
* Did some of your more questionable high school nights end up becoming known to sisters or alumni? Or did you even go so far as to leave the topless kegstand photo on Facebook?
* Were you an "eager beaver" who was trying too hard to be bubbly and "hug attacked" every other member you met?

There are SO many reasons why you may have had a bad rush even if you were average looking with a great GPA.

At the end of it though, blaming the sororities for your mistake will hinder you in life. Rush is a great way of seeing how you do in first impressions. These first impressions will affect your first dates, your job interviews, your impression on coworkers/in laws/professors, meeting with your prospective country club/arts guild/book club/PTA/intramural team/church/synagogue/children's friends parents...and maybe even the second/third/fourth time you rush. It would behoove you to not place the blame on others and sit down and analyze why you may have made some mistakes and how you can correct them for the next time first impressions matter.

Very Good! I can tell you that you are so right on a lot of your list especially this one:Top tier may not have wanted you, but would anybody else want a sister who acted bored either? I can not tell you how many times yesterday I saw disinterested, bored, boring, not paying attention and looking around the room (I would totally do that). I think sometimes these women don't even know they are doing this or acting this way. The other common mistake by the last 2 parties these PNM's are pooped- just like the actives are, but they continue to stay alert, upbeat and positive. Some of the PNM's are done and it shows in their conversations and body language and the actives picked up on it.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

Very Good! I can tell you that you are so right on a lot of your list especially this one:Top tier may not have wanted you, but would anybody else want a sister who acted bored either? I can not tell you how many times yesterday I saw disinterested, bored, boring, not paying attention and looking around the room (I would totally do that). I think sometimes these women don't even know they are doing this or acting this way. The other common mistake by the last 2 parties these PNM's are pooped- just like the actives are, but they continue to stay alert, upbeat and positive. Some of the PNM's are done and it shows in their conversations and body language and the actives picked up on it.

Oh gosh! This brings to mind one of the worst nights of my life as an adviser.
We had to release a certain number, not many but at least some. It was down to the last two women to decide between. Both had recs, both were about equal - nothing much on paper to distinguish between the two. However, one had acted soooooo bored that night. The girl who had her had an awful time trying to talk with her. She would give one word answers, if she replied at all, looked around at everyone else, never smiled during the skit, didn't applaud, just a big nothing. So we released her. She obviously "wasn't into us" and the other young lady was. Well, the next day I had an irate alum on my phone, yelling at me because we had totally crushed this girl by not inviting her back. She LOVED us soooooo much and realy wanted to pledge. She dropped out of recruitment because we released her. OMG! She did NOTHING to let us know she even tolerated us, much less liked us. Supposedly she was so nervous that she just blanked on everything, froze up. Well, goodness, how did we know that? I always have felt so badly about this but have no idea what we should have done otherwise. We just did not know and had no way to determine that she really was interested.

So, while you may have the proper "creds", you still have to be on. It really is like a job interview. You smile, talk directly, interact with those around you, be polite and act like you are enjoying yourself. You never know when you'll be "that" one.

[exlurker]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

. . . The other common mistake by the last 2 parties these PNM's are pooped- just like the actives are, but they continue to stay alert, upbeat and positive. Some of the PNM's are done and it shows in their conversations and body language and the actives picked up on it.

Quick question, then: have any chapters or Panhellenic systems as a whole had some success with planning and carrying out a very short activity at the start of the last couple of open house parties to acknowledge and share in the feling of poopedness -- and then to move on?

Sometimes just a quick mention of the exhausted elephant in the room might be a spark to bring some half-dead PNMs back into the moment.

Not cheezy, like "If you're tired and you know it, clap your hands," but some little thing to re-energize a bit?

[tld221]

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor

I worked with a "bottom" Chapter and like someone mentioned on here they do release women who are mean and rude to the girls. I have seen PNM's make active women cry because they were so awful. It would be hard to have those women come back.

oh come ON - what could a 17-18 year old freshman really say to a (possibly older) active that would make them cry? its a serious question-i really dont see a PNM being so crude and crass that it could bring a member to tears.

whatever it is, those girls need not be rushing PNMs. put them on the refreshment or door chant committee. i would hope that an active could handle the worst of anything a PNM could say, from "this house sucks" to "yo mama."