Elderly man freezes to death in home

[AKA_Monet]

To the OP: It is unfortunate the the 93 y/o man was so alienated that he did not have the wherewithal to either have his heating bills paid or some kind determination made.

After visiting Hospice today, and personal knowledge of Nursing care facilities and care facilities, my parents decision to not choose that option is good to know.

Some of us all have anecdotal stories of close loved ones, but to some level, there can be resolution with an elder.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

1. Right....once he lost power...with the avg temps being as cold, he was going to quickly freeze to death

2. The point of his passing naturally...you hit the nail on the head. Most older folks tend to have a decrease in their overall body temps and sometimes can't tell how cold it is and sometimes can't even call for help...

All things considered, even if we can say that he did feel how cold it was, AND CONSIDERING that he was behind on the bill, I am willing ot bet he probably dind't have access to a phone either.

If we can stop mucking over the limiter, we can move onto the social aspect of it all which is more important right now...the gent probably didn't have a dependable social network to help him in this time of need.

90 something years old...he needed someone to make the calls for him or visit the places which could have helped him. He needed assistance of someone to also do whatever paperwork that probably is required to get the waiver needed to keep his power on.

let's look at it folks, $1000 is a lot of money to ask a 93 year old to play for power and I am willing to bet the farm that as more details come out, he had nowhere near that kind of income to cover.

PM...question...in the past few years, have you all experienced a rate hike in the gas and eletrcity in your area and by how much?

Maryland has experienced an increase by almost 50%....people damn near rioted.

Referring to number 2: I meant died of natural causes before the heat went out. This way he already would have been dead before he would have frozen to death.

Michigan has experienced a hike. I'm not sure how much but with times being so tough around here, it seems like a large hike. We've been keeping our heat at 73 and it's freezing in here. We normally keep it at 74 and that 1 degree really does make a difference. My house is big and open and you'd think it'd be easier to heat the house but it's not.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

To the OP: It is unfortunate the the 93 y/o man was so alienated that he did not have the wherewithal to either have his heating bills paid or some kind determination made.

After visiting Hospice today, and personal knowledge of Nursing care facilities and care facilities, my parents decision to not choose that option is good to know.

Some of us all have anecdotal stories of close loved ones, but to some level, there can be resolution with an elder.

If this man didn't have family at all, what resolution could have been made? Neighbors can only do so much, especially if they weren't friendly with him.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Referring to number 2: I meant died of natural causes before the heat went out. This way he already would have been dead before he would have frozen to death.

Michigan has experienced a hike. I'm not sure how much but with times being so tough around here, it seems like a large hike. We've been keeping our heat at 73 and it's freezing in here. We normally keep it at 74 and that 1 degree really does make a difference. My house is big and open and you'd think it'd be easier to heat the house but it's not.



If this man didn't have family at all, what resolution could have been made? Neighbors can only do so much, especially if they weren't friendly with him.

What about electric heaters? Would that help at all?

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

What about electric heaters? Would that help at all?

We have one in our "sunroom". The extra windows and skylights make the room 10x colder than the rest of our house. The space heater slightly helps but you have to REALLY be careful with those. Way too many house fires caused by them.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Referring to number 2: I meant died of natural causes before the heat went out. This way he already would have been dead before he would have frozen to death.

Michigan has experienced a hike. I'm not sure how much but with times being so tough around here, it seems like a large hike. We've been keeping our heat at 73 and it's freezing in here. We normally keep it at 74 and that 1 degree really does make a difference. My house is big and open and you'd think it'd be easier to heat the house but it's not.



If this man didn't have family at all, what resolution could have been made? Neighbors can only do so much, especially if they weren't friendly with him.

Maybe your house is better insulated than mine, but I'm blown away that you keep it about 70. We're set to be about 68 in winter in Georgia, so I can't imagine what you'd pay to keep it 73 in Michigan.

Even if you aren't friendly with him, if you have a 90+ neighbor, I'm going to say it's your civic duty to check on him if it's that freezing cold. It might be your moral duty to check in on him daily, but that's probably between your moral code and you.

I'm trying to really put myself in their shoes and I can see why you'd wait. I think what I'd really do is try to set up a rotation of checking with my other neighbors so it wasn't super awkward.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Maybe your house is better insulated than mine, but I'm blown away that you keep it about 70. We're set to be about 68 in winter in Georgia, so I can't imagine what you'd pay to keep it 73 in Michigan.

Even if you aren't friendly with him, if you have a 90+ neighbor, I'm going to say it's your civic duty to check on him if it's that freezing cold. It might be your moral duty to check in on him daily, but that's probably between your moral code and you.

I'm trying to really put myself in their shoes and I can see why you'd wait. I think what I'd really do is try to set up a rotation of checking with my other neighbors so it wasn't super awkward.

Ummmm because 68 here is a beautiful fall or spring day!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Ummmm because 68 here is a beautiful fall or spring day!

Right, but I mean in my house in the winter, we keep it at 68. It might be 30 outside. And you are in the cold, cold winter and your heating to 73. It's just blows my mind, but again, your home is probably better insulated.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Maybe your house is better insulated than mine, but I'm blown away that you keep it about 70. We're set to be about 68 in winter in Georgia, so I can't imagine what you'd pay to keep it 73 in Michigan.

Even if you aren't friendly with him, if you have a 90+ neighbor, I'm going to say it's your civic duty to check on him if it's that freezing cold. It might be your moral duty to check in on him daily, but that's probably between your moral code and you.

I'm trying to really put myself in their shoes and I can see why you'd wait. I think what I'd really do is try to set up a rotation of checking with my other neighbors so it wasn't super awkward.

I keep my house at 45. The heat kicks on to let it get no colder than that. I am fully clothed at home, have a blanket (not the slanket or the snuggie though ) and I have one space heater that I can set to maintain a certain temp (I set it at 55 so I can sleep, any higher than that I get too hot). I don't have central air, just these dumb space heater type things for each room, though there is one that runs next to the exterior pipes for the kitchen. It really doesn't bother me too much, but yeah, the temp in my house has been in the mid to upper 40's. I also have a second space heater I will turn on in my office only when I am in there working, and I turn all the power strips off when I leave.

Oh and it is in the Idaho Administrative Code that power can't be turned off December through February to those who declare there are children, elderly, or infirm residents, and they have payment plans set up http://adm.idaho.gov/adminrules/rules/idapa31/2101.pdf My roommate moved out and the power dropped $50 and it has been colder.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

I keep my house at 45. The heat kicks on to let it get no colder than that. I am fully clothed at home, have a blanket (not the slanket or the snuggie though ) and I have one space heater that I can set to maintain a certain temp (I set it at 55 so I can sleep, any higher than that I get too hot). I don't have central air, just these dumb space heater type things for each room, though there is one that runs next to the exterior pipes for the kitchen. It really doesn't bother me too much, but yeah, the temp in my house has been in the mid to upper 40's. I also have a second space heater I will turn on in my office only when I am in there working, and I turn all the power strips off when I leave.

Oh and it is in the Idaho Administrative Code that power can't be turned off December through February to those who declare there are children, elderly, or infirm residents, and they have payment plans set up http://adm.idaho.gov/adminrules/rules/idapa31/2101.pdf My roommate moved out and the power dropped $50 and it has been colder.

Um, the 40s inside is too cold for me, but celebrate your small carbon footprint!

And as I said earlier, I'm not sure that just straight no cut off represents the best policy, but if it's the only way to keep people from freezing to death inside, maybe that's what you have to do.

Does anyone else run stuff like this through your little house on the prairie mental filter? If the freaking pioneers could live without electricity at all or gas heat in freaking Nebraska or whatever, why do we now think we need free heat to live?

(and sure we don't all have fireplaces and wood stoves today, but I don't think they had them fired up 24 hours a day and they still survived.)

We'd still come back to a 93 year old guy living alone and he'd had a hard time at any point, but we've all gone soft and we're stupidly dependent of stuff we don't actually provide for ourselves.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Um, the 40s inside is too cold for me, but celebrate your small carbon footprint!

And as I said earlier, I'm not sure that just straight no cut off represents the best policy, but if it's the only way to keep people from freezing to death inside, maybe that's what you have to do.

Does anyone else run stuff like this through your little house on the prairie mental filter? If the freaking pioneers could live without electricity at all or gas heat in freaking Nebraska or whatever, why do we now think we need free heat to live?

(and sure we don't all have fireplaces and wood stoves today, but I don't think they had them fired up 24 hours a day and they still survived.)

We'd still come back to a 93 year old guy living alone and he'd had a hard time at any point, but we've all gone soft and we're stupidly dependent of stuff we don't actually provide for ourselves.

Well I've mentioned on GC before I'm a perfect example of Bergmann's rule, I think I just handle cold better. I walked to and from school yesterday and people were whining about the weather, and I thought it was gorgeous, I even got so warm I had to unzip my coat. Today there were more whiners (8am class) and I felt fine. My whole trip to Vegas I was miserably hot, and I don't think it got above 65. I keep my extremities covered though, as I am not interested in frostbite.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Maybe your house is better insulated than mine, but I'm blown away that you keep it about 70. We're set to be about 68 in winter in Georgia, so I can't imagine what you'd pay to keep it 73 in Michigan.

For some reason, 68 in the summer vs 68 in the winter are two completely different temperatures. I think the thing is that, especially in big houses, it may be 73 by the thermostat but NOT in the bedrooms and ESPECIALLY not in the basement. Tile and wood floors are also very cold. Plus...in GA, the winter temp is in the 50s or so, right? Maybe 40s, but rarely lower? We routinely get to the negative degrees, especially with wind chill.

Bedrooms can be 5 degrees below the rest of the house in temperature, too.

Vandal: How do your pipes not freeze???

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

For some reason, 68 in the summer vs 68 in the winter are two completely different temperatures. I think the thing is that, especially in big houses, it may be 73 by the thermostat but NOT in the bedrooms and ESPECIALLY not in the basement. Tile and wood floors are also very cold. Plus...in GA, the winter temp is in the 50s or so, right? Maybe 40s, but rarely lower? We routinely get to the negative degrees, especially with wind chill.

Bedrooms can be 5 degrees below the rest of the house in temperature, too.

Vandal: How do your pipes not freeze???

Because freezing is at 32 degrees and my pipes are all interior except those to the kitchen sink/dishwasher. Those pipes come directly from the garage which is built into a hillside and well insulated. I also leave the cabinet doors open, and the heater comes on at 45. I'm not home a lot, no point in heating the house when I'm not home. I can see my breath at about 43, which is why I set it at 45.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

Because freezing is at 32 degrees and my pipes are all interior except those to the kitchen sink/dishwasher. Those pipes come directly from the garage which is built into a hillside and well insulated. I also leave the cabinet doors open, and the heater comes on at 45. I'm not home a lot, no point in heating the house when I'm not home. I can see my breath at about 43, which is why I set it at 45.

have you tried leaving your faucets on at a slow drip?

supposedly, by doing that, you can avoid pipe freeze.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

have you tried leaving your faucets on at a slow drip?

supposedly, by doing that, you can avoid pipe freeze.

No need to, my pipes don't freeze. Plus I couldn't live with myself if I wasted water like that.

Yeah, I have issues regarding the environment, but I also thought it was beautiful today and it didn't get above freezing. Had on my sunglasses and enjoyed the sunshine.

[Benzgirl]

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel

Because freezing is at 32 degrees and my pipes are all interior except those to the kitchen sink/dishwasher. Those pipes come directly from the garage which is built into a hillside and well insulated. I also leave the cabinet doors open, and the heater comes on at 45. I'm not home a lot, no point in heating the house when I'm not home. I can see my breath at about 43, which is why I set it at 45.

One of my previous homes had the bathroom pipes along a southwest exterior wall. Someone told me to buy Heat Tape to wrap the pipes. Luckily, there was a trap door to the pipes in one of the bedrooms, so it was doable.

This worked until it was maybe 15 degrees, then I resorted to the "slow-drip" process. I also found that an blow dryer could unfreeze a pipe pretty quickly if you knew where it was frozen.

As for bedrooms being 5 degrees colder, not in my house. My bedrooms are upstairs and heat rises. At night, the thermostat is set on 60. Otherwise, I think I'm getting hot flashes.