Elderly man freezes to death in home

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Really sad, but I agree with Kevin, in that I don't know what could have been done. If he had any family, I would imagine they should have been checking on him, but who knows if the family is estranged, etc.

I went thru it with my grandmom (not the lack of heat...just the lack of empathy)....she had 2 sons who lived right around the corner from her but I came cross town to check in on her...I was the one who found her when she passed...long...loooonnng story.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by AGDee

What they said on the local news about the limiter is that it is supposed to allow enough electricity to be used to keep the heat, refrigerator and stove going. I'm not sure how they determine how much that takes, especially since during that time period, our night time lows were -5 or so with day time highs of 8. My furnace ran continuously to keep the house at 68 during that time period. It was bitter bitter cold. Over 400 school districts in the Detroit area had school cancelled for a "cold" day the day before this guy was found. Bay City is about 150 miles north of Detroit, where it was even colder.

ETA: Since he had no kids and was 93 years old, there's a good chance there was no family at all.

Ok...cool, now an expert...please break it down because if I am reading you correctly, then what you are saying contradicts the the news article....the limiter can possibly shut down the power but keeps the essentials running...correct?

OOOOoooorr...is it as the article states it the article that it allows power for a short time but at a certain point shuts it ALL off, including the heat?

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I went thru it with my grandmom (not the lack of heat...just the lack of empathy)....she had 2 sons who lived right around the corner from her but I came cross town to check in on her...I was the one who found her when she passed...long...loooonnng story.

That happens a lot; either the children don't want to deal with the hassle, or the elderly person wants to retain their independence and the children stop getting involved.

I took an elder law course last year (for a variety of personal reasons) taught by an elder law practitioner, and some of the stories we would hear were insane.

[AGDee]

It is supposed to allow enough electricity to run those things but if you use more than it's set for, it shuts down and all power goes out, even those essential things.

ETA (again): They did say that it can be re-set by the home owner, but nobody knew for sure if the man had been shown how to do that.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by AGDee

It is supposed to allow enough electricity to run those things but if you use more than it's set for, it shuts down and all power goes out, even those essential things.

EEXXXXXXXAAACTLY.....and once it's gone it was easy to see why this poor fellow froze to death

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by AGDee

What they said on the local news about the limiter is that it is supposed to allow enough electricity to be used to keep the heat, refrigerator and stove going. I'm not sure how they determine how much that takes, especially since during that time period, our night time lows were -5 or so with day time highs of 8. My furnace ran continuously to keep the house at 68 during that time period. It was bitter bitter cold. Over 400 school districts in the Detroit area had school cancelled for a "cold" day the day before this guy was found. Bay City is about 150 miles north of Detroit, where it was even colder.

ETA: Since he had no kids and was 93 years old, there's a good chance there was no family at all.

Thank you. This is what I wanted to know, and it most definitely wasn't covered by the article. Another poster suggested that the information was in the linked article, but alas it wasn't. I wasn't the one who expected it to be.

The point you make is the one I wondered about. What's the point of a limiter if the amount of power you need to keep from freezing to death exceeds the limit?

I don't blame the power company specifically, particularly in a case with an outstanding 1,000 dollar bill, but it does seem that as a society we could certainly do better than this.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

EEXXXXXXXAAACTLY.....and once it's gone it was easy to see why this poor fellow froze to death

You realize that it was only your reading comprehension that ever had this in doubt?

It appears everyone else understood that limiter overload equaled no heat. And please remember that you were the one who suggested that information was in the article that clearly wasn't.

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

The limiter is explained in the article.

[Munchkin03]

I thought most utility providers had a special program, or at least some sort of forbearance, for people who were elderly, infirm, or who always needed electricity/running water/etc. Basically, ConEd can't turn off someone's power if they are elderly, have babies, or have an illness that requires electricity. I figured most places would have it as well.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Are you expecting a schematic layout of what the limiter does, in that article?

Wow...it's almost academic !!

What aren't you seeing?

The Limiter:
Schur owed Bay City Electric Light & Power more than $1,000 in unpaid electric bills, Bay City Manager Robert Belleman told The Associated Press on Monday.

A city utility worker had installed a "limiter" device to restrict the use of electricity at Schur's home on Jan. 13, said Belleman. The device limits power reaching a home and blows out like a fuse if consumption rises past a set level. Power is not restored until the device is reset.

I am not seeing how you can't figure out how this whole thing works and why you need such a detailed explanation as to how this killed him. It says right there in that passage, "It blows like a fuse." What happens when a fuse blows? NO POWER AT ALL.

It doesn't matter how much was getting to the home, the point IS...once the lights went out, everything else went down hill with it...including his life.

Michigan which one can guess at this time of the year is MUCH colder than say...Florida?

Anyone here from Michigan can give us an avg temp for this time of year?

Everything else is really simple.

The man owed on his bill and is 93 years old ...they put the limiter on and once the time passed...POOF NO POWER NO HEAT... once the power went out, it's almost easy to figure out that the temps quickly dropped in his home thereby killing him from hypothermia.

It's not that you don't know what particularly happened that bugs me; it's that you are condescending when you don't even grasp what's being asked.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

It's not that you don't know what particularly happened that bugs me; it's that you are condescending when you don't even grasp what's being asked.

That's because you are asking for too much out of an article that was straight to the point about how he died.


It's a news article, not an eletrical engineering report.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I thought most utility providers had a special program, or at least some sort of forbearance, for people who were elderly, infirm, or who always needed electricity/running water/etc. Basically, ConEd can't turn off someone's power if they are elderly, have babies, or have an illness that requires electricity. I figured most places would have it as well.

My guess, and of course I don't know, is that the limiter is supposed to be a way around this. You could get "essential" power, but not more. The issue seems to be that with weather this cold, the heat couldn't work without exceeding the amount of limited power.

Honestly, I don't know how I feel about a blanket policy about not cutting off power. I'd be all about requiring a percentage of profits being set aside for assisting those in need, but what seems to sometimes happen (and I'm thinking Atlanta water company here) is that once some customers learn that the utility won't actually be cut off for non-payment, they basically don't pay again for a really long time if ever. (This is kind of a bad example for this particular thread but this covers some corporate clients who went years late:http://www.ajc.com/services/content/...rrisbrown.html)

ETA: sure, the number of people who will meet the criteria you outlined is probably pretty limited, but it seems that there's a better way of dealing with the whole issue rather than just saying certain folks are exempt from getting the utilities cut off.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

That's because you are asking for too much out of an article that was straight to the point about how he died.


It's a news article, not an eletrical engineering report.

Go back and read. You will see that you were the one who suggested that all information one might want about the limiter was in the article. It was I who asked the good people of GreekChat "What's the idea of the limiter? Would it be enough to run your heat?"

And as you can now see, AGDee answered my question.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I thought most utility providers had a special program, or at least some sort of forbearance, for people who were elderly, infirm, or who always needed electricity/running water/etc. Basically, ConEd can't turn off someone's power if they are elderly, have babies, or have an illness that requires electricity. I figured most places would have it as well.

most places do, but think of how many people slip thru the cracks because for some reason or another they don't or are unable to utilize these resources.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Go back and read. You will see that you were the one who suggested that all information one might want about the limiter was in the article. It was I who asked the good people of GreekChat "What's the idea of the limiter? Would it be enough to run your heat?"

And as you can now see, AGDee answered my question.

I thought it was pretty clear in the article AND I asked AGDEE to clarify since she has more experience.

That is why you have your answer.

Can't break it down to ya much more than that....

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I thought it was pretty clear in the article AND I asked AGDEE to clarify since she has more experience.

That is why you have your answer.

That's an interesting take on what unfolded between us in this thread, but if it makes you happy. . . .

On second thought, you are clearly delusional. How do you think AGDee was responding to you. Did you personal message her because you sure didn't ask for clarification here.

I know that you enjoy the personal squabble over who is responsible for whatever misunderstanding you've usually caused, but think I'm done with you here.