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  #1  
Old 01-25-2009, 06:57 PM
KSUViolet06 KSUViolet06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AOII_LB93 View Post
. The middle portion where Mr. Williams talks of holding a president responsible for his screw ups no matter the color of his skin is very important and well said.

Anyone else read this? Thoughts?

I would think that this goes without saying.

I don't see why anyone would hold him less accountable because of it.
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  #2  
Old 01-25-2009, 07:54 PM
KSigkid KSigkid is offline
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I tend to think this is going to be like any other Presidency - some of his supporters will overlook his faults, and they'll applaud every move he makes as a necessary measure. Some of his detractors will be looking for mistakes and ready to jump on any of his policies that fail. The rest of us will react to each of his decisions, and try to judge him based on the whole of those decision.

I mean, I see that race is always an issue in society, and that he'll get more scrutiny (on both sides) because of his race...but I don't think he'll experience less "accountability" because of his race.
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  #3  
Old 01-25-2009, 08:29 PM
fantASTic fantASTic is offline
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Originally Posted by KSigkid View Post
I tend to think this is going to be like any other Presidency - some of his supporters will overlook his faults, and they'll applaud every move he makes as a necessary measure. Some of his detractors will be looking for mistakes and ready to jump on any of his policies that fail. The rest of us will react to each of his decisions, and try to judge him based on the whole of those decision.
Agreed. This was clear from our last president...as of January 22% of people thought he was doing a good job. Surprising! On the other hand, someone (I want to say Rush Limbaugh?) said on TV that he wanted Obama to fail. This is nothing new.

I find it interesting that many of those who didn't vote for Obama think that we all approve of him because of his skin color. Sorry, no. In the last five days, Obama has been doing a great job fulfilling his campaign promises - he has already suspended operations in Guantanamo Bay and signed an executive order to shut it down within a year. He's also cancelled the act that kept federal funding from any organization that offered literature on abortion.
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  #4  
Old 01-25-2009, 08:56 PM
KSigkid KSigkid is offline
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Originally Posted by fantASTic View Post
Agreed. This was clear from our last president...as of January 22% of people thought he was doing a good job. Surprising! On the other hand, someone (I want to say Rush Limbaugh?) said on TV that he wanted Obama to fail. This is nothing new.

I find it interesting that many of those who didn't vote for Obama think that we all approve of him because of his skin color. Sorry, no. In the last five days, Obama has been doing a great job fulfilling his campaign promises - he has already suspended operations in Guantanamo Bay and signed an executive order to shut it down within a year. He's also cancelled the act that kept federal funding from any organization that offered literature on abortion.
I think that many of the acts he has done (suspending Guantanamo operations, freezing aide pay) would have been done no matter who was elected, and were fairly non-controversial moves. I wasn't a fan of his platforms during the election (obviously, since I didn't vote for him), but I'm willing to take a step back to see what he does, not over his first few days, but over the next few months and next 4 years. I'll withhold judgment on him as a President for the time being, as I think too much is made of the first 100 days stuff.
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  #5  
Old 01-25-2009, 09:04 PM
deepimpact2 deepimpact2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSigkid View Post
I think that many of the acts he has done (suspending Guantanamo operations, freezing aide pay) would have been done no matter who was elected, and were fairly non-controversial moves. I wasn't a fan of his platforms during the election (obviously, since I didn't vote for him), but I'm willing to take a step back to see what he does, not over his first few days, but over the next few months and next 4 years. I'll withhold judgment on him as a President for the time being, as I think too much is made of the first 100 days stuff.
I disagree. How many other presidents have frozen pay in their first 100 days, to use just one example? And some people DO find these things that he has done to be fairly controversial.
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  #6  
Old 01-25-2009, 09:29 PM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
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Originally Posted by deepimpact2 View Post
I disagree. How many other presidents have frozen pay in their first 100 days, to use just one example? And some people DO find these things that he has done to be fairly controversial.
No president in recent history has taken office in such horrid economic conditions while funding a dual-front war. Clearly, some belt tightening was to be expected. I imagine McCain would have done the same. We're all familiar with FDR's first 100 days and the sweeping economic reforms that came about, so I won't bore anyone with the details; suffice it to say that none of the other presidents have had to take such a drastic step in their first weeks in office.

As far as Gitmo, that was also to be expected. Perhaps McCain would have waited a little bit longer, but still.

The people who find Obama's recent moves to be surprising or controversial must have had their heads in the sand for the past year or so.
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  #7  
Old 01-25-2009, 09:35 PM
DrPhil DrPhil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkin03 View Post
No president in recent history has taken office in such horrid economic conditions while funding a dual-front war. Clearly, some belt tightening was to be expected. I imagine McCain would have done the same. We're all familiar with FDR's first 100 days and the sweeping economic reforms that came about, so I won't bore anyone with the details; suffice it to say that none of the other presidents have had to take such a drastic step in their first weeks in office.

As far as Gitmo, that was also to be expected. Perhaps McCain would have waited a little bit longer, but still.

The people who find Obama's recent moves to be surprising or controversial must have had their heads in the sand for the past year or so.
You read some of our minds.
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  #8  
Old 01-25-2009, 10:09 PM
deepimpact2 deepimpact2 is offline
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkin03 View Post
No president in recent history has taken office in such horrid economic conditions while funding a dual-front war. Clearly, some belt tightening was to be expected. I imagine McCain would have done the same. We're all familiar with FDR's first 100 days and the sweeping economic reforms that came about, so I won't bore anyone with the details; suffice it to say that none of the other presidents have had to take such a drastic step in their first weeks in office.

As far as Gitmo, that was also to be expected. Perhaps McCain would have waited a little bit longer, but still.

The people who find Obama's recent moves to be surprising or controversial must have had their heads in the sand for the past year or so.
Since McCain isn't in office, you can't really say what he would have done.

Interesting to hear the viewpoints in this thread. Just kind of solidifies things for me.
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  #9  
Old 01-25-2009, 10:54 PM
KSigkid KSigkid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchkin03 View Post
No president in recent history has taken office in such horrid economic conditions while funding a dual-front war. Clearly, some belt tightening was to be expected. I imagine McCain would have done the same. We're all familiar with FDR's first 100 days and the sweeping economic reforms that came about, so I won't bore anyone with the details; suffice it to say that none of the other presidents have had to take such a drastic step in their first weeks in office.

As far as Gitmo, that was also to be expected. Perhaps McCain would have waited a little bit longer, but still.

The people who find Obama's recent moves to be surprising or controversial must have had their heads in the sand for the past year or so.
Exactly my thoughts.

Last edited by KSigkid; 01-25-2009 at 11:00 PM.
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  #10  
Old 01-25-2009, 09:02 PM
deepimpact2 deepimpact2 is offline
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Originally Posted by fantASTic View Post
I find it interesting that many of those who didn't vote for Obama think that we all approve of him because of his skin color. Sorry, no. In the last five days, Obama has been doing a great job fulfilling his campaign promises - he has already suspended operations in Guantanamo Bay and signed an executive order to shut it down within a year. He's also cancelled the act that kept federal funding from any organization that offered literature on abortion.
Yeah. I get so tired of people accusing me of voting for him and approving of him because of his skin color. That's SUCH a tired way of thinking.
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  #11  
Old 01-26-2009, 12:34 AM
PhiGam PhiGam is offline
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Originally Posted by deepimpact2 View Post
Yeah. I get so tired of people accusing me of voting for him and approving of him because of his skin color. That's SUCH a tired way of thinking.
Those people would have a 98% chance of being right about you voting for him (assuming you're black).
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  #12  
Old 01-26-2009, 01:12 AM
deepimpact2 deepimpact2 is offline
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Originally Posted by PhiGam View Post
Those people would have a 98% chance of being right about you voting for him (assuming you're black).
How did you come to that conclusion?

I mean besides obvious racists, I don't automatically assume that someone white voted for McCain because he was white. So I fail to see why people automatically assume that black people voted for Obama because he's black. Implicit in such statements is the notion that black people aren't intelligent enough to discern whether someone has the capability to run this country, and they only care about skin color.
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  #13  
Old 01-26-2009, 01:27 AM
PhiGam PhiGam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepimpact2 View Post
How did you come to that conclusion?

I mean besides obvious racists, I don't automatically assume that someone white voted for McCain because he was white. So I fail to see why people automatically assume that black people voted for Obama because he's black. Implicit in such statements is the notion that black people aren't intelligent enough to discern whether someone has the capability to run this country, and they only care about skin color.
I came to that conclusion because you said that people assume you voted for obama because of your skin color... that statement only makes sense if you're black.
I never said that I think you voted for him because he's black, simply that 98% of black people DID vote for him. Race was certainly an important factor in this decision- I will cite that Kerry only received 88% of the vote.
You can say that race wasn't a contributing factor to Obama's high totals in 2008 but I will wholeheartedly disagree. I think that his race helped him more than it hurt him.
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  #14  
Old 01-26-2009, 01:34 AM
DrPhil DrPhil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepimpact2 View Post
How did you come to that conclusion?

I mean besides obvious racists, I don't automatically assume that someone white voted for McCain because he was white. So I fail to see why people automatically assume that black people voted for Obama because he's black. Implicit in such statements is the notion that black people aren't intelligent enough to discern whether someone has the capability to run this country, and they only care about skin color.
PhiGam is just being PhiGam. There is no valid or reliable method of quantifying this.

Voting patterns are largely based on familiarity. It's also why many people blindly vote along party lines with little knowledge of actual platforms (not to mention the history of the political parties).

There are whites who voted for McCain because he was white. Some of them outright stated it and others hid it behind false claims of Obama being a terrorist and whatever other falsehoods. If many of these individuals had an understanding of politics and voted because of conservative or Republican platforms, the race effect would be less evident.

Similarly, there are blacks (and nonblacks) who voted for Obama because he's black. These are blacks (and nonblacks) who knew nothing of him other than he's black. It's not the same thing as what some of us did, which is know about his platform, and vote for him because of it---while acknowledge the historical relevance of a black POTUS.

In previous elections, race and gender mattered in a more abstract sense because they weren't reasons for voting someone. All the candidates were white male.
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  #15  
Old 01-26-2009, 02:54 PM
madmax madmax is offline
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Originally Posted by KSUViolet06 View Post
I would think that this goes without saying.

I don't see why anyone would hold him less accountable because of it.
Probably the same reason DamonSeid holds Donovan McNabb less accountable.
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