Prop 8 Nov. 15 Protest

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

He only selected an image that reflected the legal basis upon which the Connecticut and California courts have said civil unions are not the equivalent of marriage and that it was a violation of state equal protection guarantees to deny gay people the right to marry.

In that case, okay. Only on the legal basis.

But a lot of people aren't talking about the legal basis when they discuss this issue or discuss that image posted. They are talking about the interaction between the legal and the social realms. For example, how "separate but equal" clauses keep people from not only being married but from being treated as human beings who are equally protected under the law in other aspects.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

In that case, okay. Only on the legal basis.

But a lot of people aren't talking about the legal basis when they discuss this issue or discuss that image posted. They are talking about the interaction between the legal and the social realms. For example, how "separate but equal" clauses keep people from not only being married but from being treated as human beings who are equally protected under the law in other aspects.

These two things aren't wholly separate, at least in the CA and CT decisions. I don't have a large problem with that (in this instance) - others are free to disagree.

That does not change the fact that there is a massive difference in scale, nor that there is still a potential for comparison.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

These two things aren't wholly separate, at least in the CA and CT decisions. I don't have a large problem with that (in this instance) - others are free to disagree.

That does not change the fact that there is a massive difference in scale, nor that there is still a potential for comparison.

well, there are definitely incidents and law cases from the Civil Rights movement that apply to the Gay Rights movement. I mean, it is coined the civil rights movement after all... I think we need to differentiate the general struggle from specific incidents, speeches and movements that apply...

It is out of mere interest to note that Mildred Loving recently spoke out pro-gay marriage... f.y.i.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

In that case, okay. Only on the legal basis.

But a lot of people aren't talking about the legal basis when they discuss this issue or discuss that image posted. They are talking about the interaction between the legal and the social realms. For example, how "separate but equal" clauses keep people from not only being married but from being treated as human beings who are equally protected under the law in other aspects.

Given KSigKid's background, I felt quite confident that he was approaching this from a legal standpoint.

And I'm still glad you're back.

Originally Posted by OtterXO

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

The CA Supreme Court agreed to hear three cases challenging Prop 8. Should be interesting...

I just don't understand how California works. How can the Supreme Court hear anything until a lower court has heard and decided it first and someone has appealed?

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Given KSigKid's background, I felt quite confident that he was approaching this from a legal standpoint.

And I'm still glad you're back.

I just don't understand how California works. How can the Supreme Court hear anything until a lower court has heard and decided it first and someone has appealed?

The court can accept original cases that they believe is important for the state as a whole... it requires a majority vote of the court, in this case, 6 out of 7 of the justices accepted the case...

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Given KSigKid's background, I felt quite confident that he was approaching this from a legal standpoint.

Well, technically, Ksigkid hasn't touched this with a 30-foot pole - it was me . . . however, your point (perhaps without irony) still holds. Definitely legal.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I just don't understand how California works. How can the Supreme Court hear anything until a lower court has heard and decided it first and someone has appealed?

To be honest . . . I don't understand how CA works, period. Not just the Court.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I know I meant in terms of trying to make a direct connection to gay marriage and Black history in America. Also, the fact that you aptly pointed out that many gays, especially white gays, want to ride the coat tails of the Black Civil Rights movement without really understanding the emotions involved.

Hey sigma...I kinda get what you mean about not really seeing other instances of discrimination being proposed for similarities. But, what I find on this issue is that a lot of people (of both orientations) propose to me that the gay rights issue is like the civil rights issue because I'm black. It's their way of trying to establish a common ground with me, connect with me on an emotional level, etc. I imagine there's lots of examples of other groups they could use and probably do with those other groups. I think, as it's the "most recent American experience" it is presented a lot to Americans in general (more than Native Americans and Jews anyway), but moreso with us in particular. Do you think there might be a possibility that this issue seems to crop up way more with you for the same reason as it does for me?

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by christiangirl

Hey sigma...I kinda get what you mean about not really seeing other instances of discrimination being proposed for similarities. But, what I find on this issue is that a lot of people (of both orientations) propose to me that the gay rights issue is like the civil rights issue because I'm black. It's their way of trying to establish a common ground with me, connect with me on an emotional level, etc. I imagine there's lots of examples of other groups they could use and probably do with those other groups. I think, as it's the "most recent American experience" it is presented a lot to Americans in general (more than Native Americans and Jews anyway), but moreso with us in particular. Do you think there might be a possibility that this issue seems to crop up way more with you for the same reason as it does for me?

I don't know what your reasons are.

The only reason this issue cropped up for me was because I took offense at the picture KSig RC used. Like I said above, it was just propaganda to illicit a response.

If people want to be gay - fine. I will not ever try to stop them. I just draw the line at gay marriage. I will not support that based on a moral issue.

If they want civil unions / domestic partnerships, I'm actually okay with that.

But, don't claim, or imply, that they have been discriminated against in a manner in which they have not. Like I said, my parents and older relatives truly lived separate but equal lives. I grew up in Texas, I understand what that means. Gays have not been treated in the same type of separate but equal way as American Blacks were, which we have already established.