Prop 8 Nov. 15 Protest

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I agree with sigmadiva and I think some are misinterpreting her point and taking her too literally.

This debate has been going on for decades in the literature and among everyday citizens. Some people literally mean that these struggles are the exact same and others mean that they are similar and there should be an understanding of all minority groups' struggles. I believe in the latter.

KSig made the leap with the "separate but equal." It is similar but not the same. Different implications and different outcomes that are clouded because most people are looking for easy analogies and sound bites. It's as ridiculous as when white females say that their struggle for gender rights was the exact same as black females' struggles for gender rights and black people's struggles for civil rights. "We're just as oppressed as you all were." A look at history can tell us that's not accurate.

Yes, every group's struggle for civil rights is similar in that these are minority groups. Yes, this is about American rights and not just these groups. That all goes without saying. It should also go without saying that people can support or not support whatever proposition that they choose. They are not obligated to support something based on some imaginary Minority Coalition. I happen to support gay marriage but that is because I see no reason why gay people should not be able to be married. However, it turns me off when some homosexuals try to ride on the coattails of the black struggle for civil rights. That is completely unnecessary because the struggle for gay civil rights is powerful and prominent enough to be able to let go of others' coattails.

Despite the generalizations being made in the thread, there are a lot of homosexuals who try to appeal to the loyalities of blacks by saying "we're just like you." No, you aren't, and particularly white homosexuals should know in their heart of hearts that they have a privilege that has buffered the effects of heterocentrism in many contexts. This also makes riding the coattails convenient because there are quite a few instances where homosexuals haven't championed the rights of blacks. In fact, many of these homosexuals were busy benefiting from the overt and covert racism, even against homosexual racial and ethnic minorities. Where's the loyalty there? Sometimes it only appears when it is convenient.

Oh well, similar but not the same. I think that's a simple concession. It doesn't have to be the same for it to valid, does it?

You summarized my point perfectly.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

You summarized my point perfectly.

I didn't read all of your posts so I don't know what you've said about the actual issue of gay marriage.

So, I repeat, I support gay marriage. I don't want a skimmer responding to my post and missing the point because they imagined that I don't like homosexuals or don't support gay marriage.

[OtterXO]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

The CA Supreme Court agreed to hear three cases challenging Prop 8. Should be interesting...

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I didn't read all of your posts so I don't know what you've said about the actual issue of gay marriage.

So, I repeat, I support gay marriage. I don't want a skimmer responding to my post and missing the point because they imagined that I don't like homosexuals or don't support gay marriage.

I know I meant in terms of trying to make a direct connection to gay marriage and Black history in America. Also, the fact that you aptly pointed out that many gays, especially white gays, want to ride the coat tails of the Black Civil Rights movement without really understanding the emotions involved.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Also, the fact that you aptly pointed out that many gays, especially white gays, want to ride the coat tails of the Black Civil Rights movement without really understanding the emotions involved.

They don't have to understand the emotions involved, though.