Quote:
Originally Posted by kstar
Sock puppet? I've been on GC for longer than you. (by 10 days, but regardless...)
|
okay.....
Quote:
|
You say being black is not a choice, then you say that it is?
|
No, you said that being Black is a choice. I said that being Black by pigmentation is not a choice. I inherited genes from my parents that cause me to produce more melanin than what we consider white.
Being Black by cultural identification is a choice. Yes, one can be Black by "color", but one can choose to identify with a particular culture.
Your argument assumed that Black skin automatically equals Black culture. Or that is how I interpreted what you said.
Quote:
It doesn't matter if homosexuals had the had the right taken away or denied the right from the beginning, it is their right. Blacks didn't have the right to vote taken away from them, they didn't have it from the beginning, so they shouldn't have been all up in arms about not having the right? I don't think so. Nor did they have the right to marry who they chose, but a black woman fought and had her innate right recognized. From the decision of Loving -v- Virginia, "Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," .... To deny this fundamental freedom ..., is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law... Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person ... resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State." Yes, this decision was about interracial marriage, but I don't see how you can argue that interracial marriage is okay, because those people loved each other, and homosexual marriage is not. It is an innate right to marry who you want, and to deny that seriously makes you seem like a bigot.
|
Blacks had the right taken from them when they entered this country as slaves. They were not given the same and equal constitutional rights as a free (white) person. Blacks were being denied the right to be seen and treated as a human being in all aspects of living. Gays have not had the same treatment. Again, some people see homosexuality as a moral issue, not really a human / civil rights issue.
And, people can love who they want to. I just personally won't vote to allow gays to marry.
Quote:
|
Even if the laws were struck down, these people are NOT getting equal protection under the law. They cannot see their partner when they are in the hospital or make medical decisions for them, they cannot see their children if they are not the ones on the adoption papers or the biological parent, they can't adopt in some states. Hate crimes against homosexuals aren't even declared hate crimes in some states, since the laws only cover gender or racially motivated crimes. How is that equal protection?
|
Same is true for everyone else. Just because a heterosexual couple lives together, they too are not treated as a married couple.
And, with racial hate crimes, it has become harder to prove. I mean, just look at the Jena-6.
Quote:
|
Now, I have to ask, why can you not see that the struggle for civil rights and equal rights for one group is the same as any other struggle for civil rights? It doesn't matter if the crimes perpetrated against one group were better or worse, they were still crimes. You want to compare gay rights to the Holocaust struggle, I could say that is ridiculous since the Holocaust was about depriving people (including homosexuals, not only jews) of their life, not their rights, and the black rights movement of the mid-twentieth century was about rights.
|
Because as I've said, for me it is a moral issue, not a human rights issue. And, just as you think it is ridiculous to make a comparison to the Holocaust, I think it is ridiculous to make a comparison to the civil rights struggle of Blacks in this country.
Quote:
|
Separate but equal was used to justify segregation, in this case people are calling for civil unions as opposed to marriage, saying that it is the same thing (equal) but different terminology (separate). You are really saying that you don't see how separate but equal is the same type of struggle as separate but equal?
|
Again, for me it is a moral issue, not a rights issue. But that is how I see it.
Hybrid Mode
