Prop 8 Nov. 15 Protest

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

My experience tells me that some (certainly not all) couples do indeed chose to marry rather than simply live together precisely for reasons such as these.

The close-minded certainly do. I try not to.

You do know, don't you, that thousands of German homosexuals were also sent to the concentration camps and to German jails? Many were forcibly castrated, used for hormone experiments and/or killed. They had to wear pink triangles instead of (or in addition to) the yellow Star of David as a badge.

After the liberation of the concentration camps, the German goverment often re-imprisoned those gay prisoners; some remained imprisoned for years after being "liberated," all because they had been convicted of being gay, which the Nazi government had made a felony.

Yes, I do. My point was to illustrate that not only have Black Americans been ostracized, others have also. So, why do gays choose to compare their struggle to Blacks only? Why not compare their struggles to other groups.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Yes, I do. My point was to illustrate that not only have Black Americans been ostracized, others have also. So, why do gays choose to compare their struggle to Blacks only? Why not compare their struggles to other groups.

Who said they are comparing their struggles only to those of Blacks?

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Who said they are comparing their struggles only to those of Blacks?

They are. That is the comaprison they keep bringing up as a justification for their cause. I'm just responding to what has been said / posted. Did you not see the picture KSigRC posted?

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

They are. That is the comaprison they keep bringing up as a justification for their cause. I'm just responding to what has been said / posted. Did you not see the picture KSigRC posted?

FYI, I'm neither gay nor a spokesperson for gay rights.

Gays are free to compare their plight to whomever they want - but in a situation where some are pretending that a "civil union" is the same thing as "marriage," I'm going to compare that to pretending that "separate facilities" is the same thing as "equal facilities" . . . since, in a literal sense, they're identical.

Oh - by the way . . . no one can convince you that marriage is a right? Look up the Supreme Court decisions that say just that, maybe? This isn't a religion or "me" thing - it's a legal thing. Obviously, you're free to disagree with the Court's decisions, and if that's the case then we'll just have to agree to disagree on some level - but I think that would help you understand where I'm coming from, and it would fully explain the connection to past events that have paved the way for others to gain rights as well.

It's a good thing.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

...then we'll just have to agree to disagree on some level....
It's a good thing.

I agree and agree

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

They are. That is the comaprison they keep bringing up as a justification for their cause. I'm just responding to what has been said / posted. Did you not see the picture KSigRC posted?

Of course I did. The fact that Separate-but-Equal is brought up indicates two things:

-- that the Civil Rights Movement is the most recent example of an American movement seeking equality for citizens, and

-- that the court decisions in cases such as legalized gay marriage and said that providing for civil unions was not sufficient relied heavily on the reasoning of cases that struck down the Separate-but-Equal.

But your question was:

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

So, why do gays choose to compare their struggle to Blacks only? Why not compare their struggles to other groups.

So my question wasn't "who said they were comparing their struggle to the struggle of Blacks?"; it was "who said that they were comparing their struggle only to the struggle of Blacks?" The picture that KSigKid posted =/= the entirity of the discussions being had and comparisons being made on this issue.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I think we need to get rid of the term marriage altogether, except as a religious ceremony. Make the license for EVERYBODY say "Civil Union License" and make the rights the same as they are for marriage currently. This would be your legal version of marriage. The religious version would be up to the churches entirely, just like Baptism or other ceremonies are. The only thing is, I don't like the term civil union itself because I'm not sure what you would say "We're getting unionized" doesn't seem like a logical term to me. "We're getting civilized" doesn't work either. "We're being civil unionized"? "We're being partnered" ??? I just don't know what to really call it so that it makes sense. Take the religion completely out of the legal aspect of the whole thing. Then the government is allowing the same thing for any consenting adult and the churches can do what they want. The more I think about this, the more I think this is the way to go. It seems ridiculous to have to spend the kind of money it would take to do this when there is already a legal institution in place, but the term "marriage" has too many religious connotations to too many people at this point. This would better solidify a separation of church and state.

Hands down, one of the best posts of the entire year. I love you, AGDee.

Honestly, I think part of it is the romanticism of the thing. Even if all the rights were exactly equal, it still wouldn't be enough. No one (of any orientation) wants to dream of that one day in the future that their little girl will grow up, put on a pretty white dress, and go get "partnered." It's the societal connotation that KSig mentioned (though I won't even touch the other stuff in that post ).

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Of course I did. The fact that Separate-but-Equal is brought up indicates two things:

-- that the Civil Rights Movement is the most recent example of an American movement seeking equality for citizens, and

-- that the court decisions in cases such as legalized gay marriage and said that providing for civil unions was not sufficient relied heavily on the reasoning of cases that struck down the Separate-but-Equal.

ehh...I still think the connection is weak.

But your question was:
So my question wasn't "who said they were comparing their struggle to the struggle of Blacks?"; it was "who said that they were comparing their struggle only to the struggle of Blacks?" The picture that KSigKid posted =/= the entirity of the discussions being had and comparisons being made on this issue.

Because that is the reference that is continually brought up by their side.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Because that is the reference that is continually brought up by their side.

It's really not. It's all you see because you're prejudiced.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

It's really not. It's all you see because you're prejudiced.

It's not being prejudiced, it's all I "see" because it is a historical aspect of me - where I come from. I see prejudices in a lot of places. I'm just more likely to speak up about Black history / culture because that is what I am a part of.