Prop 8 Nov. 15 Protest

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by a.e.B.O.T.

This isn't about scorecards... the group that gets the most discrimination will receive their rights first... The only comparison to the black struggle that was trying to be made is, that this country has a history of LEGALLY suppressing the rights of individuals based on race, gender, religion and sexuality, with the African American struggle being the most prevalent by means of recency and severity. Now, in every national battle, both sides of the argument will say things they shouldn't say, things that cross the line. You shouldn't hold that against the other side as a whole. There are ignorant people on both side of the issue.

Gays are being told that they couldn't vote because they are immoral, confusing to children, and will upset church practice. No, that is not as severe as "less than human, lacking the mental capacity to make important decisions" as Sigmadiva put it. No, gays probably aren't being treated bad as African Americans. There were 3 times as many race-related crimes to sexual orientation related crimes. However, gays are being told they do not deserve the rights of everyone else. They are being told that they can not marry the one that they love. They are being told that they are not capable of raising healthy children. ETC... There is a difference between the way the government is benefiting straight people and gay people. That IS discrimination, even if it is not as bad as slavery or the right to vote, it still is discrimination.

Two days ago Moses Cannon was shot for being gay in Syracuse, New York. Again, I am not saying the gay struggle compares, but the struggle is definitely there and relevant... and tolerance will not come until our government fully accepts us.

1. Good, then stop trying to make implicit comparisons to the struggle of Blacks in this country to gay rights. I'm glad that you have recognized that the weight of the two are not the same.

2. I personally in no way condone violence against anyone based on how they are.

3. People (the government) will have a hard time accepting you because to do that would be to support a lifestyle that they may find immoral.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

1. Good, then stop trying to make implicit comparisons to the struggle of Blacks in this country to gay rights. I'm glad that you have recognized that the weight of the two are not the same.

2. I personally in no way condone violence against anyone based on how they are.

3. People (the government) will have a hard time accepting you because to do that would be to support a lifestyle that they may find immoral.

Ok, like I said before... there are going to be things said on both sides of the argument that are unjust and ignorant. That will not change. I can't change that. There however, is a difference between the struggle... i.e. saying that gays have had it as bad as blacks... and the arguments for the suppression... such as the Loving v. Virginia case mentioned here earlier... people found it immoral, and at that time, even after the case, a majority found it immoral. People find this immoral, but government isn't about morals. The government is about fairness, or at least should be. You want morals, go to church, believe that God doesn't approve of gays... that is all fine and dandy, and you have every right to do so. However, the government is about fairness... so the question is, is gay marriage fair? Loving V. Virginia is totally just in the argument for gay marriage as the grounds of the victory was based on the fourteenth amendment, which re-affirms the equal protection clause. The basis for that case were that Loving was protect under that clause as a citizen of the U.S... well, gays are protected under that clause as well. So there is grounds for bringing up that case as well as grounds for arguing discrimination.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by a.e.B.O.T.

Ok, like I said before... there are going to be things said on both sides of the argument that are unjust and ignorant. That will not change. I can't change that. There however, is a difference between the struggle... i.e. saying that gays have had it as bad as blacks... and the arguments for the suppression... such as the Loving v. Virginia case mentioned here earlier... people found it immoral, and at that time, even after the case, a majority found it immoral. People find this immoral, but government isn't about morals. The government is about fairness, or at least should be. You want morals, go to church, believe that God doesn't approve of gays... that is all fine and dandy, and you have every right to do so. However, the government is about fairness... so the question is, is gay marriage fair? Loving V. Virginia is totally just in the argument for gay marriage as the grounds of the victory was based on the fourteenth amendment, which re-affirms the equal protection clause. The basis for that case were that Loving was protect under that clause as a citizen of the U.S... well, gays are protected under that clause as well. So there is grounds for bringing up that case as well as grounds for arguing discrimination.

Because people have a funny way of letting their morals seep into laws.