Shocked & Disgusted

[DrPhil]

I've been lurking since yesterday to see GCers' reactions. This username will self-destruct after the post-election hoopla is over.

Originally Posted by Scandia

And voting for Obama because he's black is just as wrong as voting for McCain because he's not black.

Originally Posted by Kevin

It's just as offensive to be against the man because of his race as it is to support him because of his race.

At the surface level, sure.

Beneath the surface and taking a critical look, NO. There are different dynamics at play:

1. A large %, if not a majority, of people who voted for McCain would've done regardless because they are Repub. So the racial eptithets and hatred in those rallies and more subtly in some of the commercials were unncecessary political tactics if we're looking at people's political loyalties. But they were employed to spark fear and racial threat from McCain supporters and hopefully sway Independents, undecideds, and Democrats based on hatred, threat, and fear of the unknown (and not just the political unknown but racial and ethnic correlates of it). That's significant and should be rememberred when we try to act like racism and prejudice operate in the same manner for majority and minority racial and ethnic groups.

2. This is the first time a nonwhite man was a plausible candidate. So a bunch of people finally being excited by having a black man, or a woman, isn't hardly the same thing. It doesn't have the same potential impact on society as a bunch of people who are deadset on keeping white men in the White House. Different sentiments are expressed, one regarding hope and excitement for something different (even nonblacks laugh at the image of stuffy politicians as "white males in dark suits") and the other regarding a desire to keep the racial glass ceiling and a hypocritical interpretation of The Constitution and The American Dream.

3. A large %, if not a majority, of voters who voted for Obama would have voted for a Democrat, anyway. Repubs aside, many registered Independents also vote Democrat more often than not. Obama's skin color helped get new registered voters and encouraged some people to vote this time around---don't know the final stats on that so people can just theorize at this point--but a lot of these people would've voted Dem regardless if a white Dem had mobilized them the way that Obama's people did. His skin color made people more excited and was a good talking point. But it isn't uncommon for many people (read: not just black people) to religiously vote Democrat but not really know about the issues or to be able to explain their vote. This time they were simply able to say "he's black" as an additional seemingly superficial reason (that's not superficial at all given this KKKountry's history).

*******
I'm glad I was wrong about America being ready to elect a nonwhite POTUS. It couldn't happen with just the black and other minority vote. Whites were a large % of the vote. More work has to be done and we are nowhere near where we need to be as a nation. So I don't want people to assume that America is truly READY for a nonwhite POTUS. That remains to be seen. And structural racism and inequality did not disappear Tuesday evening so having a black POTUS does not make things better in society as a whole.

Of course, how well he will do remains to be seen. I just hope he will be given a fair chance that isn't based on his skin color and these "messiah-like" expectations. He's made a lot of promises but we should all know that the POTUS isn't in control as much as they claim that they are. He will have to do a lot that he doesn't want to do. And he won't be as honest and forthcoming as he is promising he'll be. He can't--the public can't and won't know everything.

[WinniBug]

I've seen all sorts of facebook statuses.....nothing really racist...but more heated, I think, than if the election had been between 2 white men....but LOTS of people praying


Obama announced as new President.... major rally in front of Rawlins.... 25 cops later... some GREAT change there... ass.

is spellbound and has chills. Amazing. Completely unbelievable.

thinks there can't be a better commander and chief! you're defeated bitches! hope for tomorrow!

is very excited about the change goin on in the United States!!!

thinks this will bring us to our knees! God is in control! It's the beginning of the end. Jeremiah 29:11.

is hoping that Obama does as good of a job, as I think he can do.

is wondering what the future is going to hold....

is is wondering what is to come.

you know what I think is funny, Obama has only been President for like an hour, if that! And people are already talking shit. Really? He's president.Dealwithit.

is apparently a baby killer bc she's so ready for change.Lol. Oh wow, a political statement from me.

is boo obama.still have work tomorrow.

...well, there's the new president.

is wishin everyone would chill! This is good!!! Let him prove himself!

will respect the new President, and will not change his values just to be on the wining side.

is overwhelmed and scared for the future of this country.

says "For all yall who hated on Obama, bow down...Stop with the ignorance, and the utter stupidity. Release the racism and hate!!!!"

is where will I be in 4 years??? In heaven after this four years of S*** is over!!!!!

knows the world is not going to end, but does believe there will be some tough years ahead, as would be with either candidate. It's in God's hands.

is going to tear down the walls of racism, brick by brick, stone by stone until American unites under her first black President.

is hoping that everyone can be as respectful and gracious to each other as Obama and McCain were in their speeches tonight.... because right now we are not doing so hot.

thinks america voted for a marketing plan.





ETA: And these are only about half of the election-related status updates I've had since Tuesday.

[srmom]

Everyone has their reasons for voting for one candidate or the other, but I can guarantee you that a good portion of people have no idea what either candidate stands for.

Did anyone else hear the Howard Stern show where they sent a guy out into Harlem to ask Obama supporters if they agreed with his policies, but the questioner posed McCain's policies as Obama's, such as opposition to stem cell research, etc.?

Every one of them wholeheartedly agreed with McCain's policies because they were told they were Obama's. Obviously, they weren't too concerned with "issues" because they didn't even know who stood for what! They were voting for the person not the cause.

I'm sure this goes both ways in every election, but it was a pretty funny way (in the Howard Stern in your face way) to show the electorates ignorance of the issues.

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Of course, how well he will do remains to be seen. I just hope he will be given a fair chance that isn't based on his skin color and these "messiah-like" expectations. He's made a lot of promises but we should all know that the POTUS isn't in control as much as they claim that they are. He will have to do a lot that he doesn't want to do. And he won't be as honest and forthcoming as he is promising he'll be. He can't--the public can't and won't know everything.

I agree with you completely.

I, too, found myself reading statuses on Facebook as they were changing every second - literally. I live in a very red region, so the majority were anti-Obama. Some were racially motivated. The few pro-Obama ones that I saw, however, were quite nasty as well - like some of the ones Winnibug posted. Some folks out there are awfully sore winners. Something that I think Obama himself would be very disappointed in.

I think that what bothers me most about this election is the vast number of people out there who voted based on something completely false. On BOTH sides. Like how Howard Stern's show went out and asked people on the street who they were voting for, then listed the opposing candidate's VP and platforms to see if the folks would agree with those positions. They did - both McCain and Obama supporters. It's things like that that lead me to believe that there are tons of Americans out there voting for something other than issues. And this year, the biggest "something other" was quite arguably race.

I was thinking as I read your post, "This sounds like something DSTCHAOS would say...."

[Dionysus]

No, I have not experienced this on facebook or anything. Majority of my friends are strong Obama supporters. I'm so glad I ditched certain friends I had two years ago, or I would be seeing shit like that on facebook statuses.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by srmom

Did anyone else hear the Howard Stern show where they sent a guy out into Harlem to ask Obama supporters if they agreed with his policies, but the questioner posed McCain's policies as Obama's, such as opposition to stem cell research, etc.?

Every one of them wholeheartedly agreed with McCain's policies because they were told they were Obama's. Obviously, they weren't too concerned with "issues" because they didn't even know who stood for what! They were voting for the person not the cause.

I'm sure this goes both ways in every election, but it was a pretty funny way (in the Howard Stern in your face way) to show the electorates ignorance of the issues.

I wonder how many people they had to talk to to get those gems.

The average voter isn't politically savvy, or doesn't even have basic knowledge except for the things they've picked up that interest them. And the average person doesn't really listen when casual convo is directed at them. I liken it to when people say "how are you" and you say "I became an alien overnight" and they respond with " GREAT!!! GOOD TO SEE YA!!!"

[srmom]

I liken it to when people say "how are you" and you say "I became an alien overnight" and they respond with " GREAT!!! GOOD TO SEE YA!!!"

Now that's something I'm going to have to try

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Beneath the surface and taking a critical look, NO. There are different dynamics at play:

Your 'different dynamics' are just justifications as why it's okay to vote for a person based on their skin pigmentation.

How is despising Obama or being afraid of him because he's black not the moral equivalent of supporting him simply because he's black? What you offered were reasons -- justifications as to why you think that's fine. That's all well and good, given your obvious problems with this "KKKountry's"h history, but you're just trying to justify a behavior you would condemn if it was a white man supporting a white candidate because they were white.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I've been lurking since yesterday to see GCers' reactions. This username will self-destruct after the post-election hoopla is over.






At the surface level, sure.

Beneath the surface and taking a critical look, NO. There are different dynamics at play:

1. A large %, if not a majority, of people who voted for McCain would've done regardless because they are Repub. So the racial eptithets and hatred in those rallies and more subtly in some of the commercials were unncecessary political tactics if we're looking at people's political loyalties. But they were employed to spark fear and racial threat from McCain supporters and hopefully sway Independents, undecideds, and Democrats based on hatred, threat, and fear of the unknown (and not just the political unknown but racial and ethnic correlates of it). That's significant and should be rememberred when we try to act like racism and prejudice operate in the same manner for majority and minority racial and ethnic groups.

2. This is the first time a nonwhite man was a plausible candidate. So a bunch of people finally being excited by having a black man, or a woman, isn't hardly the same thing. It doesn't have the same potential impact on society as a bunch of people who are deadset on keeping white men in the White House. Different sentiments are expressed, one regarding hope and excitement for something different (even nonblacks laugh at the image of stuffy politicians as "white males in dark suits") and the other regarding a desire to keep the racial glass ceiling and a hypocritical interpretation of The Constitution and The American Dream.

3. A large %, if not a majority, of voters who voted for Obama would have voted for a Democrat, anyway. Repubs aside, many registered Independents also vote Democrat more often than not. Obama's skin color helped get new registered voters and encouraged some people to vote this time around---don't know the final stats on that so people can just theorize at this point--but a lot of these people would've voted Dem regardless if a white Dem had mobilized them the way that Obama's people did. His skin color made people more excited and was a good talking point. But it isn't uncommon for many people (read: not just black people) to religiously vote Democrat but not really know about the issues or to be able to explain their vote. This time they were simply able to say "he's black" as an additional seemingly superficial reason (that's not superficial at all given this KKKountry's history).

*******
I'm glad I was wrong about America being ready to elect a nonwhite POTUS. It couldn't happen with just the black and other minority vote. Whites were a large % of the vote. More work has to be done and we are nowhere near where we need to be as a nation. So I don't want people to assume that America is truly READY for a nonwhite POTUS. That remains to be seen. And structural racism and inequality did not disappear Tuesday evening so having a black POTUS does not make things better in society as a whole.

Of course, how well he will do remains to be seen. I just hope he will be given a fair chance that isn't based on his skin color and these "messiah-like" expectations. He's made a lot of promises but we should all know that the POTUS isn't in control as much as they claim that they are. He will have to do a lot that he doesn't want to do. And he won't be as honest and forthcoming as he is promising he'll be. He can't--the public can't and won't know everything.

I completely agree with you on this. However, I do not agree that this extends to people (including celebrities) who have said that they would have voted for the black man running no matter who he was. That doesn't sit well with me. I'm a feminist, so I'd vote for a qualified woman over an equally qualified man with the same beliefs but not just any woman (ie. Palin.) I think that is the difference.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

I think we have to be careful in criticizing some of these people - isn't it ok to be disappointed about the results? Do we really have to expect people to unite immediately after the election?

I think that if you have a problem with people's disappointment after the election, ask yourself a question: when Bush won last time (and in 2000), were you ready to unite behind him immediately after the results were finalized? Or, did it take you some time to get over the defeat of the candidate you supported?

If you weren't ready to support Bush immediately, then I think you should give people a little more time to get behind someone they didn't support throughout the process. That's not a slight at the President-Elect, but more of a view on the reality of elections generally.

This was a momentous election, no doubt, in that it means a great deal above and beyond the fact that a new President was elected. But, it's well within human nature for people to be disappointed if they didn't vote Obama, and for it to take some time before they get behind the new President. To expect otherwise isn't reasonable.

That's not to say that they should be talking about leaving the country or stockpiling weapons, or anything like that...

I agree. It's unrealistic to expect everyone to be happy and accepting immediately.

For example, these two statements quoted above:

Laura ----- is praying for our country, Lord help us....it's now President Obama...

Andrew ----- checked this morning...the sun still rose, the Lord still reigns...we're in pretty good shape..

I remember very similar statements around then time Bush (either one) and Reagan were elected.

That said, some of the other comments -- the clear or subtle racist ones -- are beyond the pale. It's sad that there are still such small minds out there.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Your 'different dynamics' are just justifications as why it's okay to vote for a person based on their skin pigmentation.

How is despising Obama or being afraid of him because he's black not the moral equivalent of supporting him simply because he's black? What you offered were reasons -- justifications as to why you think that's fine. That's all well and good, given your obvious problems with this "KKKountry's"h history, but you're just trying to justify a behavior you would condemn if it was a white man supporting a white candidate because they were white.

people are entitled to vote for whoever they want why they want. white people have been doing it for years against candidates of color. and guess what, that's ok. those are personal biases, and people are allowed to have those. big difference between personal bias and unjust law.

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I think it’s great that Obama was elected, but I still don’t know if it’s the right time for it. There are still a whole lot of people who are not tolerant of those who aren’t like themselves. In 20 years, it might not even be much of a problem at all.

I think if we waited around for "the right time" it might never have happened. Race relations are better now than 50 years ago but things haven't changed nearly enough.

Whether it's fate, God, the cosmos, or chance, Obama is going to be our president. I tend to think race relations needed a huge shove whether some people are ready for it or not.

As for the FB status reports, I haven't seen a single bad one. I guess that's because almost all of my friends are Democrats. The others are at least mature and rational human beings who are only disappointed because of political ideals not the color of Obama's skin.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

How is despising Obama or being afraid of him because he's black not the moral equivalent of supporting him simply because he's black?

"Moral equivalent" is the surface level. If you only deal with surface level then it would appear to be the same thing, as I stated in my post. I don't deal with surface level so...we can end this transaction because I'm typing about stuff beyond the surface.

*****

I have already visited both sides of this issue because I heckled and challenged staunch Democrats and Obama supporters for months. But, although it is fun to heckle, I always knew the different dynamics at play and am looking forward to my colleagues' analyses of this election as another illustration of the dynamics of race, class, gender (sexual orientation, etc.) in America. That's the critical approach to our social world that requires more than just "they do it and we do it...it looks the same to me because humans are suddenly removed from our social roles and statuses."

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by starang21

people are entitled to vote for whoever they want why they want. white people have been doing it for years against candidates of color. and guess what, that's ok. those are personal biases, and people are allowed to have those. big difference between personal bias and unjust law.

I think you're mistaking what Kevin's arguing as "OK" versus "acceptable" or "understandable" or "beneficial for the individual/group, outweighing any real or perceived moral or ethical issues" - not that it particularly matters.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

"Moral equivalent" is the surface level. If you only deal with surface level then it would appear to be the same thing, as I stated in my post. I don't deal with surface level so...we can end this transaction because I'm typing about stuff beyond the surface.

Yea!!!! You're back (at least for a while). You've been missed!