McCain's Black Relatives

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Has anyone checked whether or not Obama's family owned slaves?

Better question: Does anyone care?

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Better question: Does anyone care?

Apparently someone cares enough about this question to act like it's a big deal (and post it), so if this is such an important issue in judging candidates maybe they should.

[PM_Mama00]

Didn't most white families who lived in America own slaves at some point?

What does someone's ancestors have to do with them now?

And if we wanna go there, let's talk about Obama's mama and how his dad was an alcoholic drunk driver. Or why DID Obama change his name from Barry to Barack if he is not Muslim or ever was....

(I'm neither an Obama nor McCain supporter)

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Didn't most white families who lived in America own slaves at some point?

No. While it might be true that most white Americans today whose ancestors came here long enough ago could find at least one slave-owning ancestor in his or her family tree, most white families did not own slaves.

To give one snapshot: According to the 1860 Census, about 25% percent of families in the 15 states where slavery was legal owned slaves. (Meaning about 75% of families in those states did not own slaves.) Per that same census, this translated into about 8% of all white American families owning slaves.

Or why DID Obama change his name from Barry to Barack if he is not Muslim or ever was....

He didn't change his name; his name has always been Barack, just like his father for whom he is named. Barry was a nickname -- it's no different from the kid Tommy deciding to be the adult Thomas (or Tomás).

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Didn't most white families who lived in America own slaves at some point?

No. Very few people owned slaves...

According to this data: http://www.civil-war.net/census.asp?census=Total

8% did.

Furthermore, what does it matter whether or not his family owned slaves? He's not his ancestors. No one is.

Edit: I know my ancestors did, the German side came over in the late 1880's and the English side were Quakers (vehemently opposed to slavery)

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

No. Very few people owned slaves...

According to this data: http://www.civil-war.net/census.asp?census=Total

8% did.

Furthermore, what does it matter whether or not his family owned slaves? He's not his ancestors. No one is.

Edit: I know my ancestors did, the German side came over in the late 1880's and the English side were Quakers (vehemently opposed to slavery)

I don't care what the percentage is...I am still stuck on the fact that millions were hauled here in the first place and God only knows how many died from those shores to these shores...this is why I even hate discussing this type of stuff because it's always someone trying to minimalize the impact that the Slave trade had...I don't care if it was 1% ...there are still issues that have gone on for 400+ years we still haven't resolved yet.

For instance....James Byrd wasn't that long ago and THIS just happened again in TEXAS

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...0,977683.story

Some behaviors just won't die...just people.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I don't care what the percentage is...I am still stuck on the fact that millions were hauled here in the first place and God only knows how many died from those shores to these shores...this is why I even hate discussing this type of stuff because it's always someone trying to minimalize the impact that the Slave trade had...I don't care if it was 1% ...there are still issues that have gone on for 400+ years we still haven't resolved yet.

For instance....James Byrd wasn't that long ago and THIS just happened again in TEXAS

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...0,977683.story

Some behaviors just won't die...just people.

I don't know that anyone here is trying to minimalize the effect of the slave trade. Even the people who say that a low percentage of whites owned slaves would admit (I would hope) that some of these whites owned large numbers of slaves. Plus, 8% is still 8% too many...

Racism is still rampant today, absolutely. When I was asking my questions, I wasn't making a judgment on the slavery, or excusing anyone's conduct, I was asking it more as a general question about whether the actions of a person's ancestors would affect the perception of that person today.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

I was asking it more as a general question about whether the actions of a person's ancestors would affect the perception of that person today.

This is off-topic, but I was reading an article a few weeks ago about how the great-niece of Heimrich Himmler fell in love with an Israeli Jew who lost family in the Holocaust. She waited for almost a year to tell her BF who her family was; eventually their marriage couldn't survive the various problems something like that brings up. We're obviously a few more generations removed from slavery than the Holocaust, but I thought I'd just throw that out there.

[Phrozen1ne]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I don't care what the percentage is...I am still stuck on the fact that millions were hauled here in the first place and God only knows how many died from those shores to these shores...this is why I even hate discussing this type of stuff because it's always someone trying to minimalize the impact that the Slave trade had...I don't care if it was 1% ...there are still issues that have gone on for 400+ years we still haven't resolved yet.

For instance....James Byrd wasn't that long ago and THIS just happened again in TEXAS

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...0,977683.story

Some behaviors just won't die...just people.

Exactly my point DS. People.....f#$k the stats, I never stated that all whites owned slaves. To say a small percentage did is bull too. I am just not shocked if I ran into someone whose ancestors did have slaves, whether they be Black, White, American Indian, etc. I never said that made McCain or Obama a bad person. If Nat Turner was related to me, does that mean I am a bad person, no.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by Phrozen1ne

Exactly my point DS. People.....f#$k the stats, I never stated that all whites owned slaves. To say a small percentage did is bull too. I am just not shocked if I ran into someone whose ancestors did have slaves, whether they be Black, White, American Indian, etc. I never said that made McCain or Obama a bad person. If Nat Turner was related to me, does that mean I am a bad person, no.

You do realize that your very own ancestors owned slaves, correct?

Very few of the slaves were simply caught by white folks with net or something, most were enslaved by rival tribes and then sold to the white folks.

It may be your own family.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I don't care what the percentage is...I am still stuck on the fact that millions were hauled here in the first place and God only knows how many died from those shores to these shores...this is why I even hate discussing this type of stuff because it's always someone trying to minimalize the impact that the Slave trade had...I don't care if it was 1% ...there are still issues that have gone on for 400+ years we still haven't resolved yet.

DS, I don't think anyone is trying to minimize it. I know I'm not and wouldn't.

Some of us have been responding to a specific question:

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Didn't most white families who lived in America own slaves at some point?

It's not minimizing the extent of slavery to say that a specific claim is not accurate.

I agree that we haven't resolved all of these issues yet. I'd add that we won't unless we are honest about the history, which means both not minimizing and not making claims that aren't true historically.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

DS, I don't think anyone is trying to minimize it. I know I'm not and wouldn't.

Some of us have been responding to a specific question:It's not minimizing the extent of slavery to say that a specific claim is not accurate.

I agree that we haven't resolved all of these issues yet. I'd add that we won't unless we are honest about the history, which means both not minimizing and not making claims that aren't true historically.

And that is fine too because you also have to be aware that even though 8% may have owned Africans, that a LARGE percent of the populace still regarded my ancestors less than human and treated them as such which is why I still get pissy when we talk about attitudes today....make sure you read that link I left.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

And that is fine too because you also have to be aware that even though 8% may have owned Africans, that a LARGE percent of the populace still regarded my ancestors less than human and treated them as such . . . .

Sure. I would certainly acknowledge that. But that's not the specific statement we were responding to. There's no need to read more into our responses than what we actually said -- that most white families did not own slaves.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Better question: Does anyone care?

Good question.

Why does anyone care whether McCain's family had slaves prior to December 6th, 1865? The answer as to him should be the same as it is for Obama.

A more interesting question, I think, and one which might be whether Obama's Kenyan ancestors were active in the slave trade. Kenya was once a big slave exporting country.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Good question.

Why does anyone care whether McCain's family had slaves prior to December 6th, 1865? The answer as to him should be the same as it is for Obama.

A more interesting question, I think, and one which might be whether Obama's Kenyan ancestors were active in the slave trade. Kenya was once a big slave exporting country.

actually right about now...this whole thread is pointless.

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Or why DID Obama change his name from Barry to Barack if he is not Muslim or ever was....

Same reason why James Earl Carter is Jimmy and Richard Cheyney is a Dick.