Second Presidential Debate

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by pinksirfidel

As of 11:30PM...

Who won the debate tonight?
A. McCain - 86%
B. Obama - 12%
C. Undecided - 1%

I didn't think the debate was that clear-cut... but I guess for most Fox News viewers it was.

LOL. (clearly all the College Republican Clubs were busy texting their little fingers off)

[pinksirfidel]

Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes

That little clip made me laugh b/c I imagined how some morons will take that comment apart and make it out to be a HUGE pitfall and drama.

People are also picking apart the comment McCain made to an audience member... "you probably never heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before"... Although that statement stuck out to me, because I wondered who didn't know about Fannie/Freddie, I'm a little over the tid-for-tat in this election...by both the media and the candidates. It's getting old.

[pinksirfidel]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

LOL. (clearly all the College Republican Clubs were busy texting their little fingers off)

I was surprised b/c the Fox News text votes for the Palin/Biden debate were consistent with the results of the other networks.

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

Drudge and WSJ's online polls are both pretty similar where as CNN is split almost the same numbers but for Obama. I think you're just seeing a growing divide in where American's get their news because after this campaign it's going to take a while for ANY news source to really be seen as neutral again.

You said it! It's funny (and a bit annoying) how I have to click back and forth between CNN or MSNBC and Fox News in an attempt to get a more balanced approach to news. Maybe I should just stick to CSPAN, hmmm....BOOORING!

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

Yawnnnn. . . . With the exception of one question, when asked first to McCain if health care is a privilege, right or responsibility? McCain responded that it is a responsibility which i completely agree with but he offered no real follow up at to who is responsible. Then Obama answered and right off the bat he said i believe health care is a RIGHT. I'll admit im biased I've liked Obama from the beginning but never really had a negative thing to say about McCain I just liked Obama better. But for McCain tonight to not be able to say that health care is a right is really disappointing to me as a college student who upon graduation will be with out health care unless i get a job that provides it.

So you heard what you wanted to hear? I don't mean that to be harsh, either - this just seems like a narrow response.

Why on Earth would a commodity be a right? This isn't an abstraction, like "food" - this is an actual, pay-for-services commodity. There's a reason why doctors make good money, right? Remember - "health care" for the purposes of the question is absolutely not the same as "medical care" - there is a very specific meaning at play here (namely, insurance coverage).

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by pinksirfidel

People are also picking apart the comment McCain made to an audience member... "you probably never heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before"... Although that statement stuck out to me, because I wondered who didn't know about Fannie/Freddie, I'm a little over the tid-for-tat in this election...by both the media and the candidates. It's getting old.

pink another thing that is coming out too (on MSNBC) not only did he say it condescendingly I may add...he was addressing a Black male and also flubbed his name.

some other points

Mcain talked about buying up bad mortgages?

DIDNT THE US GOVT JUST DO THAT LAST WEEK???


another thing

especially since Palin spent the weekend and thru today talkign about it:

McCain had Obama on HIS floor in HIS format that he requested and not ONCE say CRAP about Ayres or Obama's 'questionable' associations?

and one last thing the MSM will pick apart

here is when McCain got unraveled

By the way, my friends, I know you grow a little weary with this back-and-forth. It was an energy bill on the floor of the Senate loaded down with goodies, billions for the oil companies, and it was sponsored by Bush and Cheney.

You know who voted for it? You might never know. That one. You know who voted against it? Me. I have fought time after time against these pork barrel -- these bills that come to the floor and they have all kinds of goodies and all kinds of things in them for everybody and they buy off the votes.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...al_debate.html

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

McCain had Obama on HIS floor in HIS format that he requested and not ONCE say CRAP about Ayres or Obama's 'questionable' associations?

I think it's been pretty well reported that Palin was tasked with pinning the association stuff on Obama, the goal was to keep McCain from having to do it.

[Virtual Violet]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

Yawnnnn. . . . With the exception of one question, when asked first to McCain if health care is a privilege, right or responsibility? McCain responded that it is a responsibility which i completely agree with but he offered no real follow up at to who is responsible. Then Obama answered and right off the bat he said i believe health care is a RIGHT. I'll admit im biased I've liked Obama from the beginning but never really had a negative thing to say about McCain I just liked Obama better. But for McCain tonight to not be able to say that health care is a right is really disappointing to me as a college student who upon graduation will be with out health care unless i get a job that provides it.

I just thought that McCain's answer to that question summed up his campaign.....it was another missed opportunity to gain an advantage and show the public he gets what middle America is going through right now. McCain's answer totally goes to the perception that he is "out of touch". I don't know how EITHER candidate could miss the opportunity to say that Americans have a RIGHT to health care coverage, even if each candidate differs on HOW and WHO should pay for it? Even if his answer were B.S., I would have at least apprciated it if McCain tried to show he understands that health care coverage is a HUGE problem in this country (and a $5K tax break wouldn't even BEGIN to cover the premiums or co-pays if you got so much as a broken arm). Even when McCain answered health care coverage was a RESPONSIBILITY, I didn't hear WHOSE responsibility he thought it was? (If anyone heard it differently, feel free to respond)

[pinksirfidel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

pink another thing that is coming out too (on MSNBC) not only did he say it condescendingly I may add...he was addressing a Black male and also flubbed his name.

some other points

Mcain talked about buying up bad mortgages?

DIDNT THE US GOVT JUST DO THAT LAST WEEK???


another thing

especially since Palin spent the weekend and thru today talkign about it:

McCain had Obama on HIS floor in HIS format that he requested and not ONCE say CRAP about Ayres or Obama's 'questionable' associations?

and one last thing the MSM will pick apart

here is when McCain got unraveled

By the way, my friends, I know you grow a little weary with this back-and-forth. It was an energy bill on the floor of the Senate loaded down with goodies, billions for the oil companies, and it was sponsored by Bush and Cheney.

You know who voted for it? You might never know. That one. You know who voted against it? Me. I have fought time after time against these pork barrel -- these bills that come to the floor and they have all kinds of goodies and all kinds of things in them for everybody and they buy off the votes.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...al_debate.html

DaemonSeid--I didn't expect McCain to come out and make accusations about Obama-Ayers or attack his character all together. Why would he do such a dirty job and look bitter on primetime? I think that may be more appropriate for a rally.

I saw that it was a black man who asked the question, but honestly, i don't see the link between McCain's answers and the man itself... seems like a stretch to say he was taking down to him. Perhaps a presidential candidate should be better about remembering names, I suck at it, so I can't comment.

Regarding the "bail out for mortgages"... I was confused about this new proposal. I definitely wanted him to clarify.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

I think it's been pretty well reported that Palin was tasked with pinning the association stuff on Obama, the goal was to keep McCain from having to do it.

great send the woman to do the man's job.

nittany...on the real...that was McCains opportunity to slide it in..Palin been doing it all week....that is punkish to talk about a man when he is not there to defend himself but at the moment you have him right in front of you, you remain silent.

But this is how I feel: The American public doesn't want to hear about that

F**k a smear.....fix the economy.

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

pink another thing that is coming out too (on MSNBC) not only did he say it condescendingly I may add...he was addressing a Black male and also flubbed his name.

some other points

Mcain talked about buying up bad mortgages?

DIDNT THE US GOVT JUST DO THAT LAST WEEK???


another thing

especially since Palin spent the weekend and thru today talkign about it:

McCain had Obama on HIS floor in HIS format that he requested and not ONCE say CRAP about Ayres or Obama's 'questionable' associations?

and one last thing the MSM will pick apart

here is when McCain got unraveled

By the way, my friends, I know you grow a little weary with this back-and-forth. It was an energy bill on the floor of the Senate loaded down with goodies, billions for the oil companies, and it was sponsored by Bush and Cheney.

You know who voted for it? You might never know. That one. You know who voted against it? Me. I have fought time after time against these pork barrel -- these bills that come to the floor and they have all kinds of goodies and all kinds of things in them for everybody and they buy off the votes.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...al_debate.html

The black kid and his name: Who cares?

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac: He actually said that some of you may not have even heard of them BEFORE THIS CRISIS. See the difference?

Bailout: No, read about the bailout bill if you want an in depth explanation, but the bailout authorized the secretary to buy mortgage backed tradable securities (pseudo-bonds essentially) from banks, not to buy and renegotiate mortgage portfolios.

Ayers: He didn't bring it up because he was never planning to. He's upset that they're having to use negative campaigning and that's why he's having the ads and Palin do it rather than going after those points himself.

"That one": It didn't bother me at all, but I'm sure Obama's campaign will manage to stir plenty of fury about it up from the Obamaniacs. Obama could say the same thing and I wouldn't be bothered then either. "You know which of us voted for that? It wasn't me, it was that one." I don't see the cause for the outrage, who cares? "Which one?" "That one." Seems like a pretty reasonable flow for the comment to me, but I'm not hyper sensitive and whining about "Mean ol' John" like the Obama campaign has made one of their goals of the debate, so maybe I'm missing something.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by pinksirfidel

DaemonSeid--I didn't expect McCain to come out and make accusations about Obama-Ayers or attack his character all together. Why would he do such a dirty job and look bitter on primetime? I think that may be more appropriate for a rally.

I saw that it was a black man who asked the question, but honestly, i don't see the link between McCain's answers and the man itself... seems like a stretch to say he was taking down to him. Perhaps a presidential candidate should be better about remembering names, I suck at it, so I can't comment.

Regarding the "bail out for mortgages"... I was confused about this new proposal. I definitely wanted him to clarify.

I see it too...but the way it 'appeared' was just......off

Take it from me....when I ask you a question like that, the last thing I want from a white guy is to treat me like a child because obviously I understood it long enough to ask you about it.

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by Virtual Violet

I just thought that McCain's answer to that question summed up his campaign.....it was another missed opportunity to gain an advantage and show the public he gets what middle America is going through right now. McCain's answer totally goes to the perception that he is "out of touch". I don't know how EITHER candidate could miss the opportunity to say that Americans have a RIGHT to health care coverage, even if each candidate differs on HOW and WHO should pay for it? Even if his answer were B.S., I would have at least apprciated it if McCain tried to show he understands that health care coverage is a HUGE problem in this country (and a $5K tax break wouldn't even BEGIN to cover the premiums or co-pays if you got so much as a broken arm). Even when McCain answered health care coverage was a RESPONSIBILITY, I didn't hear WHOSE responsibility he thought it was? (If anyone heard it differently, feel free to respond)

My opinion - not speaking for any political group here, just what I think. Health insurance is only "a right" in the sense that you have a right to have it if you want, you are welcome to get health insurance. It's not a right in the sense that you should just wait for someone to come insure you. We aren't a nanny state, watch out for yourself instead of expecting the government to save the day. It is a responsibility - if you are a responsible person you will take that responsibility and either go get a job with health benefits or make health insurance fit in your budget.

[Virtual Violet]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

pink another thing that is coming out too (on MSNBC) not only did he say it condescendingly I may add...he was addressing a Black male and also flubbed his name.

some other points

here is when McCain got unraveled

By the way, my friends, I know you grow a little weary with this back-and-forth. It was an energy bill on the floor of the Senate loaded down with goodies, billions for the oil companies, and it was sponsored by Bush and Cheney.

You know who voted for it? You might never know. That one. You know who voted against it? Me. I have fought time after time against these pork barrel -- these bills that come to the floor and they have all kinds of goodies and all kinds of things in them for everybody and they buy off the votes.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...al_debate.html

I totally bristled at the "that one" comment (I thought is was rude and disrespectful not to refer to his opponent by name) , couple that with the fact that once again, Sen. McCain did not seem to want to be cordial to Sen Obama after the debate, makes me question whether to believe Senator McCain will actually make the effort to "reach across the aisle" in a bipartisan fashion as President. (I know he may have trouble actually shaking hands, but it seems that McCain avoids eye contact and hand shakes with Obama--- he did it at the last debate, on the Senate floor during the bailout, and tonight)

(CORRECTION) This morning Brokaw said the candidates did shake hands last night-but I still stand by my comments overall, McCain is "prickly" when in attack mode.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Virtual Violet

I totally bristled at the "that one" comment (I thought is was rude and disrespectful not to refer to his opponent by name) , couple that with the fact that once again, Sen. McCain did not seem to want to be cordial to Sen Obama after the debate, makes me question whether to believe Senator McCain will actually make the effort to "reach across the aisle" in a bipartisan fashion as President. (I know he may have trouble actually shaking hands, but it seems that McCain avoids eye contact and hand shakes with Obama--- he did it at the last debate, on the Senate floor during the bailout, and tonight)

Oh "That One" bounced out as soon as it was over while Obama stayed on the floor and talked with voters for 20 mins.....

short version is this: McCain was made to look like a grumpy old man who was desperate and many times appeared angry and contrite even with Brokaw...and Obama looked poised and polished....NO TELEPROMPTER needed.

[Virtual Violet]

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

My opinion - not speaking for any political group here, just what I think. Health insurance is only "a right" in the sense that you have a right to have it if you want, you are welcome to get health insurance. It's not a right in the sense that you should just wait for someone to come insure you. We aren't a nanny state, watch out for yourself instead of expecting the government to save the day. It is a responsibility - if you are a responsible person you will take that responsibility and either go get a job with health benefits or make health insurance fit in your budget.

I believe health care coverage is a right in the sense that all Americans should have the OPPORTUNITY to have health insurance coverage and be able to AFFORD to pay for it and that we are treated FAIRLY when the insurance company has to pay the claims. I'm not expecting anything to be HANDED out to the masses with no personal responsibility to maintain coverage. (Exception: I think all children should have some type of coverage)