Quote:
Originally Posted by tallgreekalum
1. I have seen the letter(several years ago)
2. The former SPE Chapter members approached US.
3. The group knew that school recognition could be an issue
4. the group knew that it wouldn't have an official on campus house, perhaps for a while, and had arranged for an off-campus house.
5. IMHO, SPE looks for any excuse to force their chapters into the "Balanced Man" program- the charter was pulled because they refused.
6. Unlike SPE, we don't force members to stay if they don't wish to. Both ADPhi and the group at W&L entered into this in good faith. When things did not work out well, we weren't going to hold the men against their will.
The other former chapters had been locals for 6 and 15+ years respectively. How long does a group have to remain a local before you wouldn't consider it "leeching"? During the same time we've started six other chapters and affiliates and restarted two chapters.
I'm unclear as to your objection. Is it that you felt the groups are not quality groups, or strictly the process at W&L? Do you feel that the men at W&L were mistreated by ADPhi? Or is it that you didn't respect the group prior to their affiliation with AD?
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I don't how far we should get into this on the boards.
1. I still would want confirmation that the letter EXPELLED the members. I don't recall that it did that, but maybe it did. You saw the letter.
2. I am aware of that.
3. They seemed pretty confident of getting recognition on campus - had quite a bit of hubris, about it, actually. Or at least, that is how they represented it to outsiders.
4. That's true. But the on-campus house was a joke. I should know. I used to hang out there quite a bit! It was in no way comparable to the housing resources the rest of the fraternities had/have and it's sort of ludicrous to try to compare it. They didn't even OWN the house or lease the house in the name of the fraternity. At some schools that might have gone over, but at W&L, where all the fraternities have houses with cooks, meal plans, etc., it just wasn't going to be a competitive or realistic situation. Didn't ADPhi realize that? No freshman guy was going to pledge that house - freshman guys want a place where their entire pledge class will live and eat together sophomore year. That's what the fraternity experience at W&L is ABOUT.
5. That's up for debate. Certainly the former SPE members (if they are indeed "former") hold that view. A lot of other SigEps do nation-wide too. I do maintain that the charges they were dechartered on were fairly minor in the big scheme of things. Especially given all the awful stuff I saw go down at fraternities at W&L. Still - the chapter DID haze. I know. I dated a pledge for his entire pledge period and heard all about the activities and even saw the physical scars.
6. It's nice that you released the guys so they could join Phi Psi, but I still think it's sketchy as hell to have been initiated into THREE NIC FRATERNITIES. Where is the loyalty there? To their credit, a good portion of the members did not end up joining Phi Psi for this kind of reason. With SigEp they felt a betrayal, but not with ADPhi I guess.
As far as leeching, I've seen you promote and brag about this strategy elsewhere on GC. While it may be a good way to add chapters to your fraternity, I really think you really need to evaluate carefully how it will go over on particular campuses. Speaking to the W&L colonization, it was hasty and unplanned, without full evaluation of the reality of the campus situation. Did ADPhi try to ascertain with the school administration whether it could gain recognition? My understanding is that it did not until immediately prior to the vote. ADPhi should have researched and realized that the likelihood of them being recognized was low and also that at campus like W&L an unrecognized fraternity was not going to do well at all. Not to mention the housing stuff I've already mentioned. Frankly, to most of the people I knew on campus, the situation seemed like A) ADPhi was completely desperate and B) the former SPEs were just using ADPhi, a teeny national fraternity, to get what they wanted.
I really hope this evaluation helps you in some way because on campus it was not the attitude of "oh, these are good guys who got screwed over by SPE." It was AT FIRST. Then, there was a shift to "What are these guys thinking, this is a loser plan."
I'm glad ADPhi is pursuing ground-up colonies as well, because of all of these reasons. Frankly, it was apparent that ADPhi did not have the resources other national fraternities did throughout the process, and I think colonizing a chapter in the W&L SPE position highlights this.
I also think you need to consider if some of the allegations and problems other national fraternities had with chapter might be more valid than you think.
As far as quality, I think it's no surprise to say that SPE at W&L was at the bottom of the middle tier or top of the bottom tier. Depending on your point of view. At one time I loved the chapter. I had a nasty breakup with a member there which led to some falling-outs and I quit hanging out there almost completely by my senior year (not to mention I subsequently started dating a guy at a rival fraternity...). I did not feel that the ADPhi process was beneficial to them as a chapter and by the time they joined Phi Psi their social reputation and membership etc. had gone way downhill - although they did kind of save struggling Phi Psi.
I don't feel they were mistreated by ADPhi. Maybe slightly mis-led -but down a path they wanted to follow. If anything, I think they used/mistreated ADPhi.
I guess that's as much as I'll say.
Hybrid Mode
