Election 2008

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Hey Trey,
I think you forgot out some points...

Originally Posted by Trey_P-I_47

Now here's 22 reasons to vote against Mr. Obama and for McCain/Palin.

1. Sen. Obama gives flowery speeches on change and hope. But he's part of one of the most corrupt political machines of all time. And instead of fighting and trying to reform the corrupt Chicago Cook County political machine, he used it to rise to power. When reformers tried to fight it, Mr. Obama refused to help them and actually was instrumental in defeating the reform movement. He preaches a new kind of politics but supports and uses one of the worst political machines in the U.S.

Obama was actually on the board of Directors at Enron and his Father was hitlers butler...

Originally Posted by Trey_P-I_47

2. He led the battle in the Illinois legislature to assure that born-alive infants would not be treated as persons and would not be entitled to medical care. Instead, if Sen. Obama had his way, such babies born alive after a botched abortion would be left to die, thus legalizing what appears to be infanticide and murder.

Not Only that, he eats babies. He like to cut them up in a little strips and dip them into a nice tangy sweet and sour sauce.

Originally Posted by Trey_P-I_47

3. When he first responded to Russia's invasion of Georgia, he said that aggression was wrong, but the U.S. would be in a better position if we set a good example. Thus he made it clear he was drawing a moral equivalence between Russia's aggression and the U.S.'s liberation of Iraq, which had violated 17 United Nations resolutions. This reaction alone, suggests not merely bad judgment but apparently no judgment at all. Then after giving it more thought, his second response was turning the matter over to the United Nations. That of course was a stupid idea as Russia has a veto in the Security Council.

... yes, all because Michelle Obama is a mail order bride...

Originally Posted by Trey_P-I_47

4. He sat in the pews of the Trinity Church in Chicago, listening to a notorious racist, bigot and anti-American, Rev. Jeremiah "God Damn America" Wright, without a peep of protest. He did not leave the church until Rev. Wright said Obama is just another politician who says what he has to say. And that move was dictated by political considerations, not any moral outrage.

yes, because Obama was blackmailed into staying at the church due to his sex tape with Kristie Alley and a four year old orphan from the south side of chicago, both of whom claimed rape...

Originally Posted by Trey_P-I_47

5. He started his political career in a fund-raiser in the home of William Ayers, an unrepentant terrorist and anti-American. He still hasn't denounced him but says Mr. Ayers is now a member of the Chicago Democratic mainstream. He still maintains a friendly relationship with him, has served on a board with him, and has participated in speaking panels with him.

Yes, and together, Obama and Ayers were the second and third gunman on the grassy knoll.



Really Trey, you left out SO SO much, I mean I can go on and say what is left out of the other 17 points, but the information here alone is enough to convince someone not to vote Obama... especially since all that is said above (yours and mine) is so carefully fact checked, providing all the necessary information for judgment, and in no way has any spin to it.

[Trey_P-I_47]

Sorry about not postng a link, you can find the information at NOBAMA.com I would also like to note, this list, to my knowledge was not compiled by a large media group, rather it just looks like someone who did a little digging and organized the way that they did.

First off, how does his POW status effect how he will run the country. I dont think he uses it as a plan of attack, but rather to let people know that he has struggled through some very difficult times and that those experiences helped shape him as an individual. I think he uses it more as a sympathetic gesture, and a way to relate to the rest of the military.

Anyway, it appears as if the same old tactics are still being used. I want to know what people think of what was said about Mr Obama, not how to change the focus away from him to McCain.

[PhiGam]

People are slowly falling out of love with Obama and have begun to analyze what he's actually saying.

[Alpha Sig Scott]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

People are slowly falling out of love with Obama and have begun to analyze what he's actually saying.

Well said.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

People are slowly falling out of love with Obama and have begun to analyze what he's actually saying.

LOL. That's good spin, but I'm not sure how accurate it is. If it were really what's going on, we would be seeing bigger drops in Obama's numbers, not just McCain's going up and a statistical dead-heat. (At least, depending on the poll. I tend to look mainly at Rasmussen and CNN's "poll of polls." In both, it's a statistical deadheat.) There may be some truth to it, but I think for the most part it falls more into the category of partisan saying-it-makes-it-so-speak.

I think that the main factor behind the poll numbers is that the McCain campaign has been Palinized. When he first chose her, I said (in the other thread) that I didn't think it was a smart choice. I'm having to rethink that, and even admit that I was wrong. (Feel free to QFP. )

While personally I still think that, from the standpoint of picking someone actually qualified for the job, Palin is a terrible choice, it is becoming clear that strategically she is a great choice. She has energized both the GOP base and, just as importantly, the McCain campaign. She has given the campaign some much-needed focus and new life. She seems to given McCain himself new energy. It's been interesting this week that it's clear people are coming out in droves to McCain campaign events to see Palin, not McCain.

I think that the main thing behind the poll numbers right now is that, thanks to Sarah Palin, lots of people who were lukewarm about supporting McCain or were on the fence are now finding a reason to be excited about the McCain campaign.

The real question though is what will happen state-by-state. These polls are all, so far as I know, polling opinions nationally, which would tend to indicate how the popular vote will go nationally. But as we all know, presidents aren't elected by a popular national vote. The issue will be where the Obama and McCain supporters are. The analysis I have seen is all over the map, so to speak, on that, but most of it seems to indicate that McCain has a harder job ahead of him than Obama.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

LOL. That's good spin, but I'm not sure how accurate it is. If it were really what's going on, we would be seeing bigger drops in Obama's numbers, not just McCain's going up and a statistical dead-heat. (At least, depending on the poll. I tend to look mainly at Rasmussen and CNN's "poll of polls." In both, it's a statistical deadheat.) There may be some truth to it, but I think for the most part it falls more into the category of partisan saying-it-makes-it-so-speak.

I think that the main factor behind the poll numbers is that the McCain campaign has been Palinized. When he first chose her, I said (in the other thread) that I didn't think it was a smart choice. I'm having to rethink that, and even admit that I was wrong. (Feel free to QFP. )

While personally I still think that, from the standpoint of picking someone actually qualified for the job, Palin is a terrible choice, it is becoming clear that strategically she is a great choice. She has energized both the GOP base and, just as importantly, the McCain campaign. She has given the campaign some much-needed focus and new life. She seems to given McCain himself new energy. It's been interesting this week that it's clear people are coming out in droves to McCain campaign events to see Palin, not McCain.

I think that the main thing behind the poll numbers right now is that, thanks to Sarah Palin, lots of people who were lukewarm about supporting McCain or were on the fence are now finding a reason to be excited about the McCain campaign.

The real question though is what will happen state-by-state. These polls are all, so far as I know, polling opinions nationally, which would tend to indicate how the popular vote will go nationally. But as we all know, presidents aren't elected by a popular national vote. The issue will be where the Obama and McCain supporters are. The analysis I have seen is all over the map, so to speak, on that, but most of it seems to indicate that McCain has a harder job ahead of him than Obama.

And, I don't think it's broken down by those who will actually go to the polls. The low voting turnout will make a difference as well, one way or the other.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

And, I don't think it's broken down by those who will actually go to the polls. The low voting turnout will make a difference as well, one way or the other.

Plus, as been noted elsewhere at GC, polls still just call landlines. They're missing the growing number of people (mostly younger people I would guess), who have ditched landlines in favor of cellphones alone.

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Plus, as been noted elsewhere at GC, polls still just call landlines. They're missing the growing number of people (mostly younger people I would guess), who have ditched landlines in favor of cellphones alone.

Telephone polling is also typically done on Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights. Typically, people in the 18-34 demo, (which estimates suggest make up a large part of new voter registstration), even those with landlines, are not as likely to be home to be polled.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Plus, as been noted elsewhere at GC, polls still just call landlines. They're missing the growing number of people (mostly younger people I would guess), who have ditched landlines in favor of cellphones alone.

This is becoming less of an issue, as far as I know (and this is only through reading industry mags and articles), although it's being replaced with a new problem - more and more polling is happening online, through "banks" of volunteer phone numbers including cell phones, or using on-site polling.

This simply replaces one form of selection bias with another, but since we really can't determine exactly what effect that bias will have, it's safe to take all polls with a grain of salt this early.

I guess my point is that if the polling is done via landline alone, I think it's fairly safe to say Obama's numbers are slightly underreported (even accounting for the fact that a huge number of the college kids on his side simply won't show up). Other polling, however, is just going to miss period, and completely ignore the error bars because they're making assumptions from 1983.

The two major political polling companies are not exactly known for being thorough or scientifically sound - they are, however, known for charging an assload for information, taking large payments from political committees, and firing out new polls as fast as possible.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Okie dokie, why don't we get down to the nitty gritty of all these election discussions:

POST 3-5 Ideas why we should vote for one candidate, and 3-5 why we shouldn't vote for the other (McCain or Obama only please, third party complicates things). Keep them concise and clear. This will make views clear and will harness effective debate. You can't comment on someone else's list until you post your own... GO!

[MysticCat]

^^^ Since this thread is supposed to be about "discuss[ing] anything & everything about this upcoming election," not just pro- and con- debates, I think you need to start a new thread if you want that kind of back-and-forth discussion. (Not that any new thread will stick to your proposed rules after a few pages. So really, why bother?)

And if you're going to do that, I think it's a mistake to exclude minor party candidates.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

^^^ Since this thread is supposed to be about "discuss[ing] anything & everything about this upcoming election," not just pro- and con- debates, I think you need to start a new thread if you want that kind of back-and-forth discussion. (Not that any new thread will stick to your proposed rules after a few pages.)

And if you're going to do that, I think it's a mistake to exclude minor party candidates.

Exactly, since, for a number of posters, they are only supporting a third party candidate.

A more effective way to do it would be, in the new thread, just to post 5 reasons to vote for your candidate of choice.

[AGDee]

For those still struggling to decide between the two main candidates:

http://abcnews.go.com/politics/Match...age?id=5542139

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by AGDee

For those still struggling to decide between the two main candidates:

http://abcnews.go.com/politics/Match...age?id=5542139

Thanks for the link - I came out with McCain, but that's not a surprise.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by AGDee

For those still struggling to decide between the two main candidates:

http://abcnews.go.com/politics/Match...age?id=5542139

I came out with Obama, but to be fair, I thought it was really easy to tell who said which statement, so it wasn't hard to pick the Obama ones.