Politics 2008:The Caucuses and The Dem/Rep Conventions

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by nikki1920

And I can't get over the fact that he seems to have selected her ONLY because she is a conservative, Republican woman as a way to lure HRC voters to his party. That's a slap in the face to them, IMO.

Funny thing is that she has mentioned Hillary twice in speeches and was booed both times. (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...llary-clinton/) Such a welcoming atmosphere for the Hillbots who can't bring themselves to vote for the Black guy!

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by mccoyred

Funny thing is that she has mentioned Hillary twice in speeches and was booed both times. (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...llary-clinton/) Such a welcoming atmosphere for the Hillbots who can't bring themselves to vote for the Black guy!

(Sorry for the board crash - I like following the politics discussions...)

You realize there may be reasons why they don't vote for Obama, beyond the color of his skin, right? That there may be reasonable minds within the Democratic party who have an issue with Obama's policies, etc?

I don't think she was the right choice for VP candidate, but I'm concerned that people are making assumptions on her personal life. I tend to think that the personal lives of the candidates should beyond the scope of scrutiny, unless they are engaged in something that compromises their ability to be an effective leader (i.e., are a drug user, criminal, etc.).

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

(Sorry for the board crash - I like following the politics discussions...)

You realize there may be reasons why they don't vote for Obama, beyond the color of his skin, right? That there may be reasonable minds within the Democratic party who have an issue with Obama's policies, etc?

Yeah, reasons like he is a Muslim (false), he is unpatriotic (huh?), oh yeah, and he was sexist toward Hillary (prove it!). ALL FALSE! All through the primaries, the pundits, pollsters and even the candidates themselves highlighted the fact that there is little daylight between them on the issues and matters of policy.

So what else is there, oh yeah, experience....He has about the same amount of elected political experience (10 yrs) as Clinton (15), Bush Sr (12) and Reagan (8) and more than Carter(7), FRD(6) and Bush Jr (5) (source:
http://www.ipl.org/div/potus/).

Is it because he was not a POW? Uh, the last President that had real military experience was Eisenhower, I believe. So that doesn't pass muster either.


PLEASE tell me why Democrats, esp those who supported Hillary, are not voting for Obama. I really want to know.




FYI, I am not a Democrat, I am a Registered Independent.


ETA: One of the last die hard Hillbots converts! http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...083101620.html

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by mccoyred

Yeah, reasons like he is a Muslim (false), he is unpatriotic (huh?), oh yeah, and he was sexist toward Hillary (prove it!). ALL FALSE! All through the primaries, the pundits, pollsters and even the candidates themselves highlighted the fact that there is little daylight between them on the issues and matters of policy.

So what else is there, oh yeah, experience....He has about the same amount of elected political experience (10 yrs) as Clinton (15), Bush Sr (12) and Reagan (8) and more than Carter(7), FRD(6) and Bush Jr (5) (source:
http://www.ipl.org/div/potus/).

Is it because he was not a POW? Uh, the last President that had real military experience was Eisenhower, I believe. So that doesn't pass muster either.


PLEASE tell me why Democrats, esp those who supported Hillary, are not voting for Obama. I really want to know.




FYI, I am not a Democrat, I am a Registered Independent.


ETA: One of the last die hard Hillbots converts! http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...083101620.html

Bush Sr. also had significant military experience. As to the other points, I understand what you're saying

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Bush Sr. also had significant military experience. As to the other points, I understand what you're saying

Thanks for the additional information. I also appreciate that you understand what I am saying. However, I REALLY want to know the answer to my question. WHY are there some Democrats who can't bring themselves to vote for Obama?

[Liquid Soule]

Originally Posted by mccoyred

WHY are there some Democrats who can't bring themselves to vote for Obama?

Some may be really upset about how Hillery was treated. Imagine how the record numbered of AA, who registered to vote because of the historical possibilities of this election, would react/feel if Obama was not the nominee.

Then there are a huge number of Reagan Dems. and some of those do not agree with his policies.

Don't get me wrong he will suffer from the Bradley effect, how badly, guess we'll see in Nov.

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by Liquid Soule

Some may be really upset about how Hillery was treated.

As I indicated in an earlier post, PROVE (ie show evidence) that BARACK OBAMA or HIS campaign was sexist toward Hillary or otherwise treated her poorly. I know of plenty of third parties (other Dems, media, folx on the street, Repugs, etc.) that were sexist but I cannot think of one incidence (neither could Ferraro when asked) of OBAMA's sexist behavior.

Frankly, I believe that Hillary brought a lot of it on herself. She chose poor advisors, allowed her husband to exercise his ego and carried an air of inevitability far into the process.

[darling1]

for some, the issue is that obama is black. it may be as simple as that. as much as we have progressed, i feel there may be some people who think "the audacity of this black man and his black wife". i have had convos with friends and they are uncomfortable with how he got to this point and who he has backing him. they believe he is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Originally Posted by mccoyred

Thanks for the additional information. I also appreciate that you understand what I am saying. However, I REALLY want to know the answer to my question. WHY are there some Democrats who can't bring themselves to vote for Obama?

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by mccoyred

WHY are there some Democrats who can't bring themselves to vote for Obama?

Who knows what their dysfunction is? Fearful of how much change is he saying or meaning? Whether or not the man is Black or other, some Democrats are worried that his thoughts about his future policies will not propel the country to the heights that "they" think it needs to be...

We have terrorists, no oil, failing infrastructure, managing disasters with minimal resources, etc. and in the meanwhile we fall behind other industrialized countries when we were at the heightened peak... Surely, Obama could not have the "end all be all" to solve our US problems... Surely...

Besides, this is a page outta Dr. Frances Cress Welsing's "Isis Papers"...

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by mccoyred

Thanks for the additional information. I also appreciate that you understand what I am saying. However, I REALLY want to know the answer to my question. WHY are there some Democrats who can't bring themselves to vote for Obama?

Just an FYI - there was an almost identical issue in 2000 after the primary fight between Bush and McCain. At the time of the Republican Convention, something like 40% of McCain backers said they would not back Bush during the general election. That number shrunk considerably by the time of the general election, and, I would guess, the same thing will happen with Obama.

While I have no doubt that race plays some part, it could just be old-fashioned bitterness after a tough primary season. I also should point out that largely, I believe with you, in that I question those who switched parties because their candidate of choice didn't get the nomination.

[SummerChild]

No, I don't think that her personal life should be off limits. Obama's personal life (including his church choice and his wife's comments) was not off limits. Michelle Obama was critiqued for her comments and Palin should also be critiqued based on what she has publicly disclosed.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander. As a woman, I can say that she does not need her hand held nor does she need protection. She is not a delicate flower like people like to think of her, just b/c she is a woman. We are tough. We can take it. She should be critiqued and vetted just like everyone else that has ever run for office. Do you think for a minute that John Edwards would have not been critiqued if his out of wedlock child would have come out during his run for president? Not for a minute do I believe that it would not be.

Everybody's personal life is fair game in any election.

*Besides, answer me this. Why is it ok for us to talk about two of her kids (the one in the service and the baby with down syndrome) but not the other one (the unmarried pregnant one)? SHE - yes, SP herself, is the one who keeps invoking her family but only when it gets her chips. SHE - yes, SP herself is the one who has made public statements about her 17 year old daughter.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If Obama and his family can be critique, so can Palin and her family. She.is.not.a.delicate.flower. We need to stop treating women as if we are some sort of delicate toy that will break at the first harsh or critical comment.

SC




At every instance

Originally Posted by KSigkid

(Sorry for the board crash - I like following the politics discussions...)

You realize there may be reasons why they don't vote for Obama, beyond the color of his skin, right? That there may be reasonable minds within the Democratic party who have an issue with Obama's policies, etc?

I don't think she was the right choice for VP candidate, but I'm concerned that people are making assumptions on her personal life. I tend to think that the personal lives of the candidates should beyond the scope of scrutiny, unless they are engaged in something that compromises their ability to be an effective leader (i.e., are a drug user, criminal, etc.).

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by SummerChild

No, I don't think that her personal life should be off limits. Obama's personal life (including his church choice and his wife's comments) was not off limits. Michelle Obama was critiqued for her comments and Palin should also be critiqued based on what she has publicly disclosed.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander. As a woman, I can say that she does not need her hand held nor does she need protection. She is not a delicate flower like people like to think of her, just b/c she is a woman. We are tough. We can take it. She should be critiqued and vetted just like everyone else that has ever run for office. Do you think for a minute that John Edwards would have not been critiqued if his out of wedlock child would have come out during his run for president? Not for a minute do I believe that it would not be.

Everybody's personal life is fair game in any election.

*Besides, answer me this. Why is it ok for us to talk about two of her kids (the one in the service and the baby with down syndrome) but not the other one (the unmarried pregnant one)? SHE - yes, SP herself, is the one who keeps invoking her family but only when it gets her chips. SHE - yes, SP herself is the one who has made public statements about her 17 year old daughter.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If Obama and his family can be critique, so can Palin and her family. She.is.not.a.delicate.flower. We need to stop treating women as if we are some sort of delicate toy that will break at the first harsh or critical comment.

SC




At every instance

Agreed again. Sorry, SP and McSame, you can't have it both ways!

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13143.html

[abaici]

I want the GOP to finish Palin's crash course to "How to be a Good Vice President" and let the woman speak without prepared statements. She needs to answer some questions.

[TonyB06]

Originally Posted by abaici

I want the GOP to finish Palin's crash course to "How to be a Good Vice President" and let the woman speak without prepared statements. She needs to answer some questions.

hey!! you've been gone a while. welcome back.

[SummerChild]

Hey Soror!!! How are you? I'm living in ATL now. I'll PM you.
SC

Originally Posted by abaici

I want the GOP to finish Palin's crash course to "How to be a Good Vice President" and let the woman speak without prepared statements. She needs to answer some questions.