Plegdes wearing letters???

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Pray tell - if a pledge doesn't know what the letters mean, and thus shouldn't wear them, why do you allow pledges to wear Phi Mu spelled out? They don't know what "Phi Mu" means as a pledge, right? So what is the difference?
I realize this is far snarkier than I usually am, and if I could figure out a non-snarky way to write it, I would. From a logical standpoint, I just can't see why the letters themselves are verboten, while writing it out is okay.

I didn't see this earlier, but coming from an org that follows this policy, I'll take a stab at it.

The Greek letters spelled out -- Phi Mu Alpha -- are basically the name of the Fraternity; they identify the Fraternity and those people and things affiliated with it. But the Greek letters themselves -- F, M, A -- are much more than just the name of the Fraternity. (Shoot, for our first 50 years, they weren't even officially part of the Fraternity's name.) They are symbols of the ideals that we most cherish; and they identify those who have been fully initiated and who have committed themselves by solemn oath to cherish and promote what the letters mean. They are among the most meaningful symbols we have.

Until initiation, one is not a full brother. He may indicate his probationary affiliation with the Fraternity by wearing or having something with the name spelled out. But until he is initiated into full membership, he doesn't have the right to wear the letters themselves (or the coat-of-arms), because he has neither learned what they mean nor committed himself to what they represent.

[PhiMuGirl07]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I didn't see this earlier, but coming from an org that follows this policy, I'll take a stab at it.

The Greek letters spelled out -- Phi Mu Alpha -- are basically the name of the Fraternity; they identify the Fraternity and those people and things affiliated with it. But the Greek letters themselves -- F, M, A -- are much more than just the name of the Fraternity. (Shoot, for our first 50 years, they weren't even officially part of the Fraternity's name.) They are symbols of the ideals that we most cherish; and they identify those who have been fully initiated and who have committed themselves by solemn oath to cherish and promote what the letters mean. They are among the most meaningful symbols we have.

Until initiation, one is not a full brother. He may indicate his probationary affiliation with the Fraternity by wearing or having something with the name spelled out. But until he is initiated into full membership, he doesn't have the right to wear the letters themselves (or the coat-of-arms), because he has neither learned what they mean nor committed himself to what they represent.

Thank you that was more along the lines of what I needed to say. I'm sure most if not all GLO's greek letters have special meanings that you only know about after initiation and spelled out is simply the name of the organization.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I didn't see this earlier, but coming from an org that follows this policy, I'll take a stab at it.

The Greek letters spelled out -- Phi Mu Alpha -- are basically the name of the Fraternity; they identify the Fraternity and those people and things affiliated with it. But the Greek letters themselves -- F, M, A -- are much more than just the name of the Fraternity. (Shoot, for our first 50 years, they weren't even officially part of the Fraternity's name.) They are symbols of the ideals that we most cherish; and they identify those who have been fully initiated and who have committed themselves by solemn oath to cherish and promote what the letters mean. They are among the most meaningful symbols we have.

Until initiation, one is not a full brother. He may indicate his probationary affiliation with the Fraternity by wearing or having something with the name spelled out. But until he is initiated into full membership, he doesn't have the right to wear the letters themselves (or the coat-of-arms), because he has neither learned what they mean nor committed himself to what they represent.

I fully support any GLO's policies, whether or not they make sense to me, so please understand that I am not advocating that anyone is wrong, or should change.

I am simply approaching this from a logical standpoint. It still seems to me that hairs are being split - Whether or not "Alpha", for example, is written as a Greek letter or the English version, both stand for an element of the name of the group. Most, if not all, groups use the letters themselves because they are the first letter of a secret motto or meaning. So I still don't see why the Greek letters are any more representative of the secret-not-known-until-initiation meaning than the English version - both represent the beginning letter of a word that is not revealed until the member is fully initiated. And then there's FIJI - but that's taking it to an extreme.

Ultimately though, it's like I tell my darling children sometimes - "Because I'm the mom, and I say so!". If your GLO wants the letters reserved for initiated members, then they should be. I do think chapters should follow the national policy.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I am simply approaching this from a logical standpoint. It still seems to me that hairs are being split - Whether or not "Alpha", for example, is written as a Greek letter or the English version, both stand for an element of the name of the group. Most, if not all, groups use the letters themselves because they are the first letter of a secret motto or meaning. So I still don't see why the Greek letters are any more representative of the secret-not-known-until-initiation meaning than the English version - both represent the beginning letter of a word that is not revealed until the member is fully initiated.

I'll agree that each GLO should do things the way they see fit, whether it makes sense to me or not.

But, with all the humility I can muster , might I suggest that your approach is not a purely logical one, but rather one starting with the ethos of your own organization and using logic to apply that ethos to other organizations, whether the other organizations actually share that ethos or not. You say "I still don't see why the Greek letters are any more representative of the secret-not-known-until-initiation meaning than the English version." But just because you don't see why they are "more representative" of the esoteric teachings of an org doesn't mean that other orgs shouldn't (or can't) reasonably see them as "more representative."

To use my own organization as an example: We were founded in 1898. Our name was The Sinfonia Fraternity, not Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia Fraternity. We began using the Greek letters as early as 1900; by 1910, they had been added to our badge and appeared on our coat-of-arms (as part of the badge in the center of the shield). It was common from early days to sign letters "Fraternally yours, in F, M, A." (Notice the commas that were usually, though not always, included.) Used this way, the letters were taken to refer to what they represent, not necessarily to the Fraternity as such. Although the Fraternity had been informally referred to as "Phi Mu Alpha" for decades, the name was not officially changed until 1946. (Sinfonia remains the accepts "short form" name -- our equivalent of "Gamma Phi," if you will.) We have never referred to brothers as "Phi Mu Alphas," but rather always as Sinfonians; we often, however, refer to "brothers in FMA," again referring as much if not more to what the letters represent as to the Fraternity as such.

Also, because our name includes an English (derived from Greek) word -- "Sinfonia" -- as well as the Greek letters, we almost always write the name of the Fraternity in English. While brothers may use the Greek letters as identifiers on shirts, houses, objects, etc., I've rarely seen the name of the Fraternity written as "FMA Sinfonia." (Yes, I used to have it that way in my sig, although again not so much for the name per se as for what each letter or word means. One of the reasons I got rid of that sig was because it never looked right to me.)

So we do have a history and tradition where the Greek letters are, to us, more representative of what they stand for than the English spelling of the letters. I wouldn't be surprised if Phi Mu (for many years The Philomathean Society) has a similar historical understanding.

And as much as I swore I never would, I use "'Cause I'm the dad" on my kids way too often.

ETA: FWIW, the policy that only initiated brothers can wear the Greek letters is not just a policy promulgated by our HQ or followed by some chapters; it's contained in Article XXI, section 4, of our national constitution: "Only Sinfonians in good standing may wear or otherwise display the Greek letters 'ΦΜΑ' or the Fraternity’s Coat-of-Arms. Probationary members may not wear or otherwise display these symbols at any time prior to initiation. A member may not authorize or encourage a non-Sinfonian to wear or otherwise display these symbols."

[ree-Xi]

When I pledged AXiD in 1990, we were not allowed to wear letters. We were given a pledge shirt, which had ALPHA XI DELTA spelled out, with LAMDBA (pledge class) underneath it.

For those of you who know my story, we pledged for three months, to be initated the beginning of the next semester (for grades). Well, one week prior to finals, I became sick and had to head home early. I ended up missing out on a few things and ended up not initiating with my class.

Shoot ahead to this past March, when I was initiated via AI into my home chapter (LOVE MY EPSILON NU GALS!). Initiation was especially poingnant for me, because I learned things that meant something so much more than I could have ever understood. I realized that the person who I am, who I have always been, was already so much of who an Alpha Xi Delta woman is and attains to be. It felt so right. I can't explain it any better that that.

After initiation, the collegiates presented me with hand-stitched letters, my first set. They made me put it on over my dress, and took pictures. You cannot imagine what it felt like to wear my letters, so many years later. It's a feeling that I imagine will never lose its novelty.

[breathesgelatin]

There is so much confusion on this. Here is an example.

My chapter had a tradition of not allowing new members to wear letters. It wasn't strictly enforced. If a NM went out and bought items with the sorority letters on it, we didn't confiscate it from her or anything. Well, maybe some people in the chapter would have wanted us to or said something to the NM but officially we didn't take any action on that. Basically, our tradition was that during the NM period, no sorority shirts with the letters would be made. We just used the spelled out "Pi Beta Phi" (again, doesn't make a whole ton of sense to me logically either, but whatever). So getting your first letter tshirt and your lavaliere from your big sister was a big deal in my chapter.

Somehow this came up when a consultant came through and she got tense and told us this was NOT Pi Phi policy. She said we could still do the informal traditions of only spelling out the letters, as long as the NM and initiated member tshirts were all the same (they were). So really the only change that came from her visit was the chapter got even less concerned about NMs buying lettered stuff on their own, which given Pi Phi policy was a good thing.

Then, my senior year, we got a new AAC Chair (head advisor). The Chair was new to advising. Let me say that she was GREAT and I loved having her around and we were lucky to get her. But, her chapter as an undergrad had had a VERY strict policy that NMs should not wear letters. OK, so one of the duties of the AAC Chair in Pi Phi is that they conduct NM interviews prior to initiation (I don't think that's giving away too much). During the interviews, a few of the NMs were wearing stitched letter tshirts. The advisor was discreet, but she came to the officers afterwards (I was president at this point) and confronted us about the NMs wearing letters, this was a violation of policy, etc. We had to explain to her that this was NOT a violation and in fact telling them they couldn't wear letters was a violation. Her first reaction was disbelief. Her second reaction, once we convinced her that we were right (it took a while) was "That's stupid." Which is an opinion she's entitled to. But it just demonstrates how much confusion and disagreement there can be even within one chapter about A) what policy is B) what the ideal policy should be.

Re: the comments about most NPC chapters allowing NMs to wear letters and not crests, I've never heard this before. Can anyone provide some evidence for this on a NPC-wide basis? In my view, I can't really see what the difference would be, from a "treating NMs differently is hazing" perspective, between letters and crests. Also, I don't really see NMs jumping at the opportunity to wear tshirts with their crests. Because most people on a college campus would not immediately recognize what the heck their crest even is. But... I'm willing to be convinced of this fact. I've never heard such a thing for Pi Phi.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Re: the comments about most NPC chapters allowing NMs to wear letters and not crests, I've never heard this before. Can anyone provide some evidence for this on a NPC-wide basis? In my view, I can't really see what the difference would be, from a "treating NMs differently is hazing" perspective, between letters and crests. Also, I don't really see NMs jumping at the opportunity to wear tshirts with their crests. Because most people on a college campus would not immediately recognize what the heck their crest even is. But... I'm willing to be convinced of this fact. I've never heard such a thing for Pi Phi.

Our rationale is that the crest as a whole is only fully understood after you go through the initiation ceremony. Whereas our letters have an open meaning (Aspire, Seek, Attain) that anyone can see anywhere. I would assume AST (Active, Self-Reliant, Trustworthy) is the same way.*

And as far as crests are concerned, they used to be a lot more popular when people were still getting screen printed sweatshirts in general. The crest sweatshirts now - at least the ones I've seen - cost SO much for the stitched ones and I think that's why a lot of people don't wear them.

*ETA: I am only speaking for my group as to why wearing letters as a pledge would be OK. I absolutely would not and do not presume to say that any other group should do the same, as I don't know what their letters mean or if they have an open motto that corresponds directly to them. My reason for using the AST example is 1) they were on my campus 2) they used their open motto frequently 3) the open mottos (AST's and ASA's) have the same initials in English as they do in Greek.

[ASTalumna06]

I looked briefly, and I am not able to find anything written as of now that says “new members can wear letters”. But why does something have to be written to be understood? Do you need someone to write down that you should take a shower in the morning? No. You just do it, because that’s what should be done.

So… while there is no clear definition concerning this, I will try and explain my take on this.

First of all, our hazing policy mentions 3 categories of hazing. The second 2 discuss harassment and emotional and physical harm. But the first one reads:

• Subtle/evasive – actions which violate the values, purposes, and ideals of Alpha Sigma Tau.

It goes on to read:

The senseless act of hazing not only creates liability risk for the chapter and the entire sorority, but also hinders the development of friendships that are the basis of sisterhood.

How do you help your new members develop friendships with the group if they are not allowed to be visibly associated with it?

As breathesgelatin said, who wears the crest on their t-shirts? Nobody, really. But the crest is a special symbol that represents the ideals of your organization in a way that only initiated members can fully understand. Same with the initiated member badge. These are things that are acquired with the completion of a new member program. But your letters define you as a member of the organization, whether you’re a brother/sister or a new member who just went through their first ceremony. The actual letters on a page mean very little. If you were to see the letter “alpha” or “A”, it would be very insignificant. Even a few of them together… AST. In theory, these letters mean something to me. But to other people, they may be just 3 random letters together. Essentially, your letters simply identify you as part of one organization as opposed to another. They "name" your organization. But look at your crest. Anyone can see that there are symbols and words that most likely have meaning, but obviously only to those to whom they have been explained.

I mean, how do you create a new Greek organization? What is the first thing people do? Or at least the easiest thing they do? They chose letters. There is no process to it, except figuring out which sets of letters have already been taken. And then you put those letters on a t-shirt. It’s not hard. It means very little if you have nothing to back it up.

As 33girl said, like ASA (and many other Greek organizations), AST has an open motto. "Active, Self-Reliant, Trustworthy". And I hope our new members would know and understand this and display these personality traits. (I mean, this is the first thing we teach them!) This motto is the meaning of our letters, and anyone, including non-Greeks, can know that. And if they didn’t display these characteristics, they wouldn’t have become new members in the first place.

The point of being in a brotherhood/sisterhood is to welcome new members, to make new friends, and to form life-long connections. It’s not to make people feel like outsiders by denying them something as basic as wearing the letters that associate them with that organization.