Plegdes wearing letters???

[breathesgelatin]

There is so much confusion on this. Here is an example.

My chapter had a tradition of not allowing new members to wear letters. It wasn't strictly enforced. If a NM went out and bought items with the sorority letters on it, we didn't confiscate it from her or anything. Well, maybe some people in the chapter would have wanted us to or said something to the NM but officially we didn't take any action on that. Basically, our tradition was that during the NM period, no sorority shirts with the letters would be made. We just used the spelled out "Pi Beta Phi" (again, doesn't make a whole ton of sense to me logically either, but whatever). So getting your first letter tshirt and your lavaliere from your big sister was a big deal in my chapter.

Somehow this came up when a consultant came through and she got tense and told us this was NOT Pi Phi policy. She said we could still do the informal traditions of only spelling out the letters, as long as the NM and initiated member tshirts were all the same (they were). So really the only change that came from her visit was the chapter got even less concerned about NMs buying lettered stuff on their own, which given Pi Phi policy was a good thing.

Then, my senior year, we got a new AAC Chair (head advisor). The Chair was new to advising. Let me say that she was GREAT and I loved having her around and we were lucky to get her. But, her chapter as an undergrad had had a VERY strict policy that NMs should not wear letters. OK, so one of the duties of the AAC Chair in Pi Phi is that they conduct NM interviews prior to initiation (I don't think that's giving away too much). During the interviews, a few of the NMs were wearing stitched letter tshirts. The advisor was discreet, but she came to the officers afterwards (I was president at this point) and confronted us about the NMs wearing letters, this was a violation of policy, etc. We had to explain to her that this was NOT a violation and in fact telling them they couldn't wear letters was a violation. Her first reaction was disbelief. Her second reaction, once we convinced her that we were right (it took a while) was "That's stupid." Which is an opinion she's entitled to. But it just demonstrates how much confusion and disagreement there can be even within one chapter about A) what policy is B) what the ideal policy should be.

Re: the comments about most NPC chapters allowing NMs to wear letters and not crests, I've never heard this before. Can anyone provide some evidence for this on a NPC-wide basis? In my view, I can't really see what the difference would be, from a "treating NMs differently is hazing" perspective, between letters and crests. Also, I don't really see NMs jumping at the opportunity to wear tshirts with their crests. Because most people on a college campus would not immediately recognize what the heck their crest even is. But... I'm willing to be convinced of this fact. I've never heard such a thing for Pi Phi.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Re: the comments about most NPC chapters allowing NMs to wear letters and not crests, I've never heard this before. Can anyone provide some evidence for this on a NPC-wide basis? In my view, I can't really see what the difference would be, from a "treating NMs differently is hazing" perspective, between letters and crests. Also, I don't really see NMs jumping at the opportunity to wear tshirts with their crests. Because most people on a college campus would not immediately recognize what the heck their crest even is. But... I'm willing to be convinced of this fact. I've never heard such a thing for Pi Phi.

Our rationale is that the crest as a whole is only fully understood after you go through the initiation ceremony. Whereas our letters have an open meaning (Aspire, Seek, Attain) that anyone can see anywhere. I would assume AST (Active, Self-Reliant, Trustworthy) is the same way.*

And as far as crests are concerned, they used to be a lot more popular when people were still getting screen printed sweatshirts in general. The crest sweatshirts now - at least the ones I've seen - cost SO much for the stitched ones and I think that's why a lot of people don't wear them.

*ETA: I am only speaking for my group as to why wearing letters as a pledge would be OK. I absolutely would not and do not presume to say that any other group should do the same, as I don't know what their letters mean or if they have an open motto that corresponds directly to them. My reason for using the AST example is 1) they were on my campus 2) they used their open motto frequently 3) the open mottos (AST's and ASA's) have the same initials in English as they do in Greek.

[ASTalumna06]

I looked briefly, and I am not able to find anything written as of now that says “new members can wear letters”. But why does something have to be written to be understood? Do you need someone to write down that you should take a shower in the morning? No. You just do it, because that’s what should be done.

So… while there is no clear definition concerning this, I will try and explain my take on this.

First of all, our hazing policy mentions 3 categories of hazing. The second 2 discuss harassment and emotional and physical harm. But the first one reads:

• Subtle/evasive – actions which violate the values, purposes, and ideals of Alpha Sigma Tau.

It goes on to read:

The senseless act of hazing not only creates liability risk for the chapter and the entire sorority, but also hinders the development of friendships that are the basis of sisterhood.

How do you help your new members develop friendships with the group if they are not allowed to be visibly associated with it?

As breathesgelatin said, who wears the crest on their t-shirts? Nobody, really. But the crest is a special symbol that represents the ideals of your organization in a way that only initiated members can fully understand. Same with the initiated member badge. These are things that are acquired with the completion of a new member program. But your letters define you as a member of the organization, whether you’re a brother/sister or a new member who just went through their first ceremony. The actual letters on a page mean very little. If you were to see the letter “alpha” or “A”, it would be very insignificant. Even a few of them together… AST. In theory, these letters mean something to me. But to other people, they may be just 3 random letters together. Essentially, your letters simply identify you as part of one organization as opposed to another. They "name" your organization. But look at your crest. Anyone can see that there are symbols and words that most likely have meaning, but obviously only to those to whom they have been explained.

I mean, how do you create a new Greek organization? What is the first thing people do? Or at least the easiest thing they do? They chose letters. There is no process to it, except figuring out which sets of letters have already been taken. And then you put those letters on a t-shirt. It’s not hard. It means very little if you have nothing to back it up.

As 33girl said, like ASA (and many other Greek organizations), AST has an open motto. "Active, Self-Reliant, Trustworthy". And I hope our new members would know and understand this and display these personality traits. (I mean, this is the first thing we teach them!) This motto is the meaning of our letters, and anyone, including non-Greeks, can know that. And if they didn’t display these characteristics, they wouldn’t have become new members in the first place.

The point of being in a brotherhood/sisterhood is to welcome new members, to make new friends, and to form life-long connections. It’s not to make people feel like outsiders by denying them something as basic as wearing the letters that associate them with that organization.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

How do you help your new members develop friendships with the group if they are not allowed to be visibly associated with it?

By participating in activities associated with the organization. If wearing a shirt/jacket/etc is the only way that a person can build a connection with my GLO, I don't want him in.

As breathesgelatin said, who wears the crest on their t-shirts? Nobody, really. But the crest is a special symbol that represents the ideals of your organization in a way that only initiated members can fully understand. Same with the initiated member badge. These are things that are acquired with the completion of a new member program. But your letters define you as a member of the organization, whether you’re a brother/sister or a new member who just went through their first ceremony. The actual letters on a page mean very little. If you were to see the letter “alpha” or “A”, it would be very insignificant. Even a few of them together… AST. In theory, these letters mean something to me. But to other people, they may be just 3 random letters together. Essentially, your letters simply identify you as part of one organization as opposed to another. They "name" your organization. But look at your crest. Anyone can see that there are symbols and words that most likely have meaning, but obviously only to those to whom they have been explained.

All organizations don't have open meanings for their letters. So, just like with the crest, there is a special meaning behind the letters that only full members would know and understand.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

But the crest is a special symbol that represents the ideals of your organization in a way that only initiated members can fully understand. Same with the initiated member badge. These are things that are acquired with the completion of a new member program. But your letters define you as a member of the organization, whether you’re a brother/sister or a new member who just went through their first ceremony. The actual letters on a page mean very little. If you were to see the letter “alpha” or “A”, it would be very insignificant. Even a few of them together… AST. In theory, these letters mean something to me. But to other people, they may be just 3 random letters together. Essentially, your letters simply identify you as part of one organization as opposed to another. They "name" your organization. But look at your crest. Anyone can see that there are symbols and words that most likely have meaning, but obviously only to those to whom they have been explained. . . .
The point of being in a brotherhood/sisterhood is to welcome new members, to make new friends, and to form life-long connections. It’s not to make people feel like outsiders by denying them something as basic as wearing the letters that associate them with that organization.

You're speaking from the perspective of being a member of your organization, and that's fine as far as your organization goes. But you're new here. If there's one lesson to be learned above all others at GC, it's that all GLOs, despite their many similarities, are different. What may be true of your organization is not necessarily true of other orgs.

Two examples: You say, "But your letters define you as a member of the organization, whether you’re a brother/sister or a new member who just went through their first ceremony." That's may be true of your org, but it's not true of mine. In mine, our letters identify us as initiated brothers. Again, you have to remember that the idea that "new members" are equal to initiated members in most every way except having gone through initiation is common in the NPC now, but it is not common outside the NPC.

Also, I can assure you that my letters mean a great deal to me, and much more than "in theory" or as "letters on a page." My letters do not represent an open motto as is the case in some orgs. (Though take a look at Fiji, where the letters do represent an open motto and yet there are very strict guidelines on how the letters can be displayed.) We do not know what they mean until initiation. I'm not saying that your letters don't mean a great deal to you, but the idea that the letters "simply identify" us as part of one organization rather than another is completely foreign to our understanding of our letters. In fact, we would stress exactly the opposite -- that our letters don't just identify the group we belong to but signify something much deeper.

We do not make probationary members feel like outsiders by not allowing them to wear our letters, but we also do not act like they are brothers yet when they are not. It's fine by me that your sorority allows its new members to wear letters, but it is pretty presumptuous of you to assume that anyone who does things differently is wrong.

[blkwebman1919]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

You're speaking from the perspective of being a member of your organization, and that's fine as far as your organization goes. But you're new here. If there's one lesson to be learned above all others at GC, it's that all GLOs, despite their many similarities, are different. What may be true of your organization is not necessarily true of other orgs.

Two examples: You say, "But your letters define you as a member of the organization, whether you’re a brother/sister or a new member who just went through their first ceremony." That's may be true of your org, but it's not true of mine. In mine, our letters identify us as initiated brothers. Again, you have to remember that the idea that "new members" are equal to initiated members in most every way except having gone through initiation is common in the NPC now, but it is not common outside the NPC.

Also, I can assure you that my letters mean a great deal to me, and much more than "in theory" or as "letters on a page." My letters do not represent an open motto as is the case in some orgs. (Though take a look at Fiji, where the letters do represent an open motto and yet there are very strict guidelines on how the letters can be displayed.) We do not know what they mean until initiation. I'm not saying that your letters don't mean a great deal to you, but the idea that the letters "simply identify" us as part of one organization rather than another is completely foreign to our understanding of our letters. In fact, we would stress exactly the opposite -- that our letters don't just identify the group we belong to but signify something much deeper.

We do not make probationary members feel like outsiders by not allowing them to wear our letters, but we also do not act like they are brothers yet when they are not. It's fine by me that your sorority allows its new members to wear letters, but it is pretty presumptuous of you to assume that anyone who does things differently is wrong.

Well said!!!!!

[ASTalumna06]

I never said that my organization is the same as all the rest. breathesgelatin had said that they heard most NPC chapters allow new members to wear letters and not crests, and was apparently confused by this. She wanted evidence of it. She asked what the difference would be in not allowing the new members to wear the crest, but allowing them to wear letters. So I attempted, without any written evidence, to explain that based on my organizations rules, policies, and procedures.

And when I say that your letters identify you as part of an organization… that’s to say… the Greek letters are just that… letters. When you create an Greek organization, you put together 2 or 3 of those letters, and they mean very little when there’s nothing to back them up. Now, clearly a hundred years of history, at least in AST’s case, gives more meaning to those 3 letters. But to someone who isn’t part of my organization, even other Greeks, it’s essentially meaningless.

And in agreeing with 33girl, similar to ASA, we have an open motto that we expect our new members to embrace. I never said that every org has one and that’s what their letters stand for.

But like other orgs, we have meanings to our letters that we learn after initiation, but we feel that our new members reflect the sorority as much as initiated members do, and therefore, can wear letters. It's AST’s view that when you go through your first ceremony to become a new member, you’re a part of the sisterhood, and that entitles you to wear them. This is what we do to begin to integrate our new members into our organization. And when they're intiated, like I said, they can also wear the crest.

Everyone talks about their own organizations on here. Is this suddenly not allowed?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I never said that my organization is the same as all the rest. . . . And when I say that your letters identify you as part of an organization… that’s to say… the Greek letters are just that… letters. . . . Everyone talks about their own organizations on here. Is this suddenly not allowed?

Of course it's allowed. It's encouraged and welcome. But look at what you said:

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

But your letters define you as a member of the organization, whether you’re a brother/sister or a new member who just went through their first ceremony. The actual letters on a page mean very little.

If you had said something like, "our letters define us as members whether one is a sister or not," it would be clear you're talking about your organization. But when you say "your letters . . . whether you're a brother or not," I'm not going to interpret your comments as limited to AST. Likewise with this:

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Essentially, your letters simply identify you as part of one organization as opposed to another. They "name" your organization.

If you just mean your organization, then don't phrase it like you're talking about GLOs in general.

Then there was this:

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

The point of being in a brotherhood/sisterhood is to welcome new members, to make new friends, and to form life-long connections. It’s not to make people feel like outsiders by denying them something as basic as wearing the letters that associate them with that organization.

If you're talking about AST's approach to integrating new members, then why mention "the point of being in a brotherhood"?

This is why your post came across to me (and, I think, others) as a commentary on GLOs in general, and why it came across as suggesting that GLOs that do things differently from the way you describe are, for lack of a better word, "wrong."