People that you would NOT recommend.

[dgdramadawg]

As was mentioned in the previous thread by others, it would take a lot for me to write a no rec. I would be more likely to ask the PNM to ask someone else for a rec if I did not feel comfortable recommending her. The girl would have to have some serious baggage that would reflect poorly on the sorority, like a felony or really risque photos online or something, for me to feel like I should write her a no rec.

A friend of mine told me once that her chapter often received no recs from older alumnae who did not want girls pledging because the girls drank or something like that. I think this is a perfect example of different alumnae taking membership criteria differently... some might see this as worthy of a no rec and others might think it makes the PNM a fun-loving girl! This is where multiple recs would come in handy... if 2 alums say "no," then it's definitely not just a personal opinion of one woman.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by dgdramadawg

A friend of mine told me once that her chapter often received no recs from older alumnae who did not want girls pledging because the girls drank or something like that. I think this is a perfect example of different alumnae taking membership criteria differently... some might see this as worthy of a no rec and others might think it makes the PNM a fun-loving girl! This is where multiple recs would come in handy... if 2 alums say "no," then it's definitely not just a personal opinion of one woman.

In some orgs (I'd wager most), it is extremely difficult if not almost impossible to pledge a PNM for which a No-Rec has been received, though. So whether one or two alums sent a No-Rec in doesn't matter.

[honeychile]

The one time I No Recced someone, I first talked to a friend - who is an International Officer. I explained, and she told me to No Rec her, and she would handle it from there.

FWIW, we don't have to write an explanation. I just wanted to make sure that this was not seen as a frivolous act for me.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by honeychile

The one time I No Recced someone, I first talked to a friend - who is an International Officer. I explained, and she told me to No Rec her, and she would handle it from there.

FWIW, we don't have to write an explanation. I just wanted to make sure that this was not seen as a frivolous act for me.

What? No gossipy reason for me? You're missing the point of this thread, Honeychile.

I don't think we have to explain either, and I probably wouldn't. My internal standard would be is she likely to do actual harm to the chapter, and if I thought based on real evidence that the answer was yes, I'd no rec.

If I just didn't think she was a particularly good candidate, I'd just reflect my lack of glow in the rec itself.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

What? No gossipy reason for me? You're missing the point of this thread, Honeychile.

Well, when I was Rec Chair, we did have a few No Recs. One that I do know about was a PNM who had an abortion when very young.

Which brings me to another story: a woman nearby was getting recs together for her daughter, and a few of her acquaintances agreed to meet her and her daughter for lunch one day. They arrived at the restaurant, and the acquaintances gasped when they saw the daughter. DD had been shopping at the mall (for Recruitment clothing!) and had treated two of the ladies so rudely that they had been taken aback.

I have no idea if they No Recced her or not, but it IS a lesson to PNMs: those little old ladies at whom you flipped the bird or slammed the door on may be the same ladies who you may need for a Rec!

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Well, when I was Rec Chair, we did have a few No Recs. One that I do know about was a PNM who had an abortion when very young.

Aww. This is awful to me on a couple of levels.

First of all, no one can really know this woman's real situation. A lot of times people who have abortions at very young ages are victims of incest or molestation or rape. And people on the outside might not necessarily know it was the case - it can still be a BOYFRIEND who rapes a young teenage girl.

My other point would be is that this is fundamentally her choice and perhaps in some respects a responsible decision, but I know a lot of people would disagree with me there. Whatever your view is, I doubt this young woman was proud of this situation and probably learned and matured a LOT from this decision.

I wonder if the decision to No Rec this would still have been made if this young woman had put her baby up for adoption.

I really hate this kind of thing, and I don't think it's appropriate. I know every individual alum can do what they want, but I think this kind of thing is awful. It's a shaming type of behavior that makes people feel bad about getting pregnant in the first place, and drives them to have abortions.

/soapbox

[catiebug]

Best. Thread. Ever.

Makes me wonder - what would it take for Chuck Norris to "no rec" someone...

[lyrelyre]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

I wonder if the decision to No Rec this would still have been made if this young woman had put her baby up for adoption.

I often wonder the opposite. When I've heard gossip about collegians wanting to release a girl immediately who had a baby in high school and placed the baby for adoption. I always think (and often say), "You know, if she had an abortion in high school we probably wouldn't even know about it."

It’s a double standard for the same “questionable” behavior. I place questionable in quotations because such a high percentage of high school students are sexually active, that I feel it’s like the pot calling the kettle black to judge a girl because she got caught.

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Aww. This is awful to me on a couple of levels.

First of all, no one can really know this woman's real situation. A lot of times people who have abortions at very young ages are victims of incest or molestation or rape. And people on the outside might not necessarily know it was the case - it can still be a BOYFRIEND who rapes a young teenage girl.

My other point would be is that this is fundamentally her choice and perhaps in some respects a responsible decision, but I know a lot of people would disagree with me there. Whatever your view is, I doubt this young woman was proud of this situation and probably learned and matured a LOT from this decision.

I wonder if the decision to No Rec this would still have been made if this young woman had put her baby up for adoption.

I really hate this kind of thing, and I don't think it's appropriate. I know every individual alum can do what they want, but I think this kind of thing is awful. It's a shaming type of behavior that makes people feel bad about getting pregnant in the first place, and drives them to have abortions.

/soapbox

I get what you are saying and agree.

However -- and I have nothing to back this up other than annecdotal experience -- the girl whose abortion winds up being public knowledge is often the girl who doesn't give a flip about her reputation anyways since she's running around with every guy in town. I have never received a No Rec solely for having an abortion. It's always been accompanied with trampy behavior.

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Aww. This is awful to me on a couple of levels.

First of all, no one can really know this woman's real situation. A lot of times people who have abortions at very young ages are victims of incest or molestation or rape. And people on the outside might not necessarily know it was the case - it can still be a BOYFRIEND who rapes a young teenage girl.

My other point would be is that this is fundamentally her choice and perhaps in some respects a responsible decision, but I know a lot of people would disagree with me there. Whatever your view is, I doubt this young woman was proud of this situation and probably learned and matured a LOT from this decision.

I wonder if the decision to No Rec this would still have been made if this young woman had put her baby up for adoption.

I really hate this kind of thing, and I don't think it's appropriate. I know every individual alum can do what they want, but I think this kind of thing is awful. It's a shaming type of behavior that makes people feel bad about getting pregnant in the first place, and drives them to have abortions.

/soapbox

Extremely well written and it deserves to be repeated.

Issues related to health and such just seem so completely private to me, and even if I knew someone's personal situation like that I would never repeat it, not even on such a form.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Aww. This is awful to me on a couple of levels.

First of all, no one can really know this woman's real situation. A lot of times people who have abortions at very young ages are victims of incest or molestation or rape. And people on the outside might not necessarily know it was the case - it can still be a BOYFRIEND who rapes a young teenage girl.

My other point would be is that this is fundamentally her choice and perhaps in some respects a responsible decision, but I know a lot of people would disagree with me there. Whatever your view is, I doubt this young woman was proud of this situation and probably learned and matured a LOT from this decision.

I wonder if the decision to No Rec this would still have been made if this young woman had put her baby up for adoption.

I really hate this kind of thing, and I don't think it's appropriate. I know every individual alum can do what they want, but I think this kind of thing is awful. It's a shaming type of behavior that makes people feel bad about getting pregnant in the first place, and drives them to have abortions.

/soapbox

I am generally more pro-life than pro-choice, but I'm not trying to take this thread in the direction of a conversation on abortion. We've done that before a lot of other places.

But, I think Zillini is on to something about the issue being general reputation maybe more than the act itself.

I suspect there are a lot of people [ETA: okay, maybe not a lot who would no rec, but a lot who would mention it and some who would No Rec] who would write a no-rec for a girl that had a baby, probably just as many or more as the girl who people knew had the abortion.

I suspect any knowledge that alumnae have of a high school girl's sexual activity or the consequences thereof puts the PNM at risk for a no rec. That may not be fair and maybe it's something we should be more mindful of, but I think it IS the way it works.

This is another one of those cases where I think more recent alumnae might not come down as hard, but I'm betting young moms and girls who are known in the community for having had abortions probably don't have great recruitments most places where recs are a factor.

ETA: Hypocrisy kind of drives me crazy too, but when you're dealing with things as ethereal as hometown reputation or being pleased to have someone wear your badge, things are going to get icky.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Aww. This is awful to me on a couple of levels.

First of all, no one can really know this woman's real situation. A lot of times people who have abortions at very young ages are victims of incest or molestation or rape. And people on the outside might not necessarily know it was the case - it can still be a BOYFRIEND who rapes a young teenage girl.

My other point would be is that this is fundamentally her choice and perhaps in some respects a responsible decision, but I know a lot of people would disagree with me there. Whatever your view is, I doubt this young woman was proud of this situation and probably learned and matured a LOT from this decision.

I wonder if the decision to No Rec this would still have been made if this young woman had put her baby up for adoption.

I really hate this kind of thing, and I don't think it's appropriate. I know every individual alum can do what they want, but I think this kind of thing is awful. It's a shaming type of behavior that makes people feel bad about getting pregnant in the first place, and drives them to have abortions.

/soapbox

I'm still mad at myself for not questioning the woman HOW she knew about the abortion. As much as I'm pro-life, I like to think that I wouldn't No Rec a PNM based solely on one mistake she made, no matter how bad.

There was sweet revenge on both sides of the coin in this case: the PNM became a member of another fine sorority, and eventually became their President. On the other hand, she also was a well-known "frat rat", so maybe the alumna knew of what she spoke. We'll never know - and nor should we.

[kappalove17]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Well, when I was Rec Chair, we did have a few No Recs. One that I do know about was a PNM who had an abortion when very young.

That's terrible!! You No Rec'ed someone for that? There have been girls in my chapter that have had abortions and we stood by them for it. That's so sad.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by kappalove17

That's terrible!! You No Rec'ed someone for that? There have been girls in my chapter that have had abortions and we stood by them for it. That's so sad.

Keep in mind, every chapter is autonomous in choosing their members. If a chapter receives a no-rec and the members think the reason given is stupid, they don't have to cut her.

I doubt my chapter would cut a PNM that we otherwise liked for that reason alone.