Question About Quotas

[gee_ess]

I think the rec forms and what is required on them varies from GLO to GLO. Some forms ask for info as well as whether or not the alum would recommend them for membership. Other forms are filled out only if the member recommends the pnm for membership.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I am confused, it seems like AA was addressing a question that wasn't asked..."Why would a chapter member say 'you don't need recs'?" My guess is that a chapter member at a competitive school would say that if she WANTS the girl asking the question to be cut.

Oh, and alums might also not want to fill out recs because they just plain don't want to bother. Not everyone gives a crap about that sort of thing.

I would never fill out a rec or write a letter of recommendation or even introduction for a woman I didn't know personally.

I probably wouldn't think about it if I weren't in a region where it's a big deal. But knowing how valuable they can be for the girls and knowing how it could help a chapter, it seems worthwhile. (But I probably went the first eight or ten years out of school not writing any and really only started doing a bunch in the last few years. Oddly, I think GC made me more likely to think about writing them.)

I would never misrepresent how well I knew a PNM, but I've written them for people with varying levels of closeness to me, and to be honest, how well does the average teacher (or friend's parent) know a kid that she thinks she knows personally?

Originally Posted by gee_ess

I think the rec forms and what is required on them varies from GLO to GLO. Some forms ask for info as well as whether or not the alum would recommend them for membership. Other forms are filled out only if the member recommends the pnm for membership.

I didn't realize this. What do alumnae whose groups are in the second category do if someone really sketchy is rushing? It would take a lot for me to make contact with a chapter to say something negative, but if it ever happened, there's an option on the form to not recommend.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I didn't realize this. What do alumnae whose groups are in the second category do if someone really sketchy is rushing? It would take a lot for me to make contact with a chapter to say something negative, but if it ever happened, there's an option on the form to not recommend.

In Pi Phi there's several levels of recommendation. There's the just plain NO RIF, which is really unusual to get.

Then there's the standard "recommend" and "highly recommend." There's also an info only rec... Depending on the alum, sometimes they'll recommend on info only (having the philosophy that the chapter should discern if the PNM is qualified and they don't want to prevent someone from joining), but normally an info-only rec doesn't really do much because it can't be used as the rec and the chapter will have to pursue other options if it wants to bid the PNM.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

In Pi Phi there's several levels of recommendation. There's the just plain NO RIF, which is really unusual to get.

Then there's the standard "recommend" and "highly recommend." There's also an info only rec... Depending on the alum, sometimes they'll recommend on info only (having the philosophy that the chapter should discern if the PNM is qualified and they don't want to prevent someone from joining), but normally an info-only rec doesn't really do much because it can't be used as the rec and the chapter will have to pursue other options if it wants to bid the PNM.

But even the info-onlys probably provide more information to the chapter in advance than not getting one would or verifies other information that the chapter might consider in MS.

So while they aren't completely useful, they probably aren't a total waste of time, right?

If they are a total waste of time, someone ought to the the word out to the alumnae since they are wasting their own time too.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

But even the info-onlys probably provide more information to the chapter in advance than not getting one would or verifies other information that the chapter might consider in MS.

So while they aren't completely useful, they probably aren't a total waste of time, right?

If they are a total waste of time, someone ought to the the word out to the alumnae since they are wasting their own time too.

LOL - they weren't that useful to my chapter because we had deferred recruitment anyway, so it was really all about that. We only need RIFs to save us the work of getting them an alternate way. We already knew all the girls!

But yes, you're probably correct that they're extremely useful to chapters in other situations.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

LOL - they weren't that useful to my chapter because we had deferred recruitment anyway, so it was really all about that. We only need RIFs to save us the work of getting them an alternate way. We already knew all the girls!

But yes, you're probably correct that they're extremely useful to chapters in other situations.

Would it look too ungrateful if you all put that info out there?

If you could figure out a tactful way to say, because we have deferred recruitment, we really only need authentic recommendations, rather than information about the PNMS.

Do most people who send the recs know when you all do recruitment? I know that sounds kind of dumb, but it really wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people who do batches of recs on recent graduates think in terms of sending them out in August (but at least those would be from people who actually know the PNMs).

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Would it look too ungrateful if you all put that info out there?

If you could figure out a tactful way to say, because we have deferred recruitment, we really only need authentic recommendations, rather than information about the PNMS.

Do most people who send the recs know when you all do recruitment? I know that sounds kind of dumb, but it really wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people who do batches of recs on recent graduates think in terms of sending them out in August (but at least those would be from people who actually know the PNMs).

Well - honestly we got so few recommendations that getting info-only ones wasn't a huge annoyance, just a bit of a let-down.

I think most people who sent recs realized when we did recruitment, but maybe didn't think through how that really works in practice.

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

There's the just plain NO RIF, which is really unusual to get.

That's the truth. No Recs are a real rarity. Alums have to really, really, really think this PNM is bad to write a No Rec. Most times they'll just not write a Rec at all rather than sharing negative info with the chapter.

I've gotten a mere handful over my many years of advising. Why so few considering the 1,000's of women who have gone through our formal recruitment? The biggest concern I hear from alums is they are fearful it would get out that they No Rec'd a girl. They don't want to offend the parents, family, friends, etc of this girl if it becomes known the author was the reason why this girl got dropped.

FYI - We treat No Rec authors names as "classified information" for this reason. It's on a "need to know" basis and only the advisors and Recruitment officers need to know.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by Zillini

...No Recs are a real rarity. Alums have to really, really, really think this PNM is bad to write a No Rec. Most times they'll just not write a Rec at all rather than sharing negative info with the chapter....the biggest concern I hear from alums is they are fearful it would get out that they No Rec'd a girl. They don't want to offend the parents, family, friends, etc...

Wow, that IS a consideration, especially if there are several folks from the hometown in the chapter or advising. I hadn't thought about that.
Here's what I do when there is a concern: write the rec. Either DON"T sign it, or (now) check the box that says "I do not recommend" (or whatever it says...can't remember exactly what it says).
THEN I put a hand-written Post-It note saying "CALL ME FIRST" with my name and phone number.
That way, I can relay my concerns to the correct person...and it's not written down anywhere, so there is no chance of any libel issues.
Now...I have seen a chapter or two go ahead and pledge a girl despite (strong) warnings from an alum. In fact, I've done it - when the alum's concerns proved to be trivial.
But it is NOT something you want to do all the time. NOT a good way to get alumnae support!

[UGAalum94]

There's been one pnm that I didn't write a rec for because I had reservations about her as a person. I also knew she wasn't a good fit for the chapter at the campus where she was rushing, so it wasn't going to be much of an issue.

It wasn't a situation for which she requested a rec and I passive aggressively didn't do one; it was a situation in which I was writing recs for the girls from my hometown and I just didn't take the initiative to do one for her.

I can't really imagine a girl who I had reason to not recommend ever directly asking for one, but I think I would just decline, rather than have her think I send in a positive one when really I was hurting her chances.

ETA: It would take pretty high level of proof of bad acts before I would really no rec, maybe arrest or suspensions from school. I just can't imagine a girl with a really bad hometown reputation asking for one.

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

ETA: It would take pretty high level of proof of bad acts before I would really no rec, maybe arrest or suspensions from school. I just can't imagine a girl with a really bad hometown reputation asking for one.

You'd be surprised. Some PNMs simply don't understand that their past bad acts can haunt them. It was just 1 DUI or only a 3 day suspension. What's the big deal? I'm not a bad person and it was soooooooooooo long ago, like last year!

That's not the norm, though I have heard of it happening. Most No Recs come from an alum who took it upon herself to inform the chapter after finding out the PNM was going through Recruitment. The PNM probably had no idea that alum was writing anything.