Michelle Obama rumor- October surprise

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

That is a ridiculous statement.

Did you see the recent speech where Obama said we should not worry about Iran because it is a tiny country? I am not speaking out of context- that is what he said. That is a complete and utter disregard for what terrorism is and how terrorism works. It was not some huge nation that killed 3,000 Americans on 9-11.

Have you heard the many speeches Obama has made on evil oil companies or high gas prices? They sound very appealing but lack in substance or solutions.

How often has Obama given you specific information you can understand and trust in when it comes to why and how he would accomplish something- and where the money would come from?

Did you hear Obama talk about poor people who cling to guns and religion?

Have you heard the very few times Obama has spoken about taxation and given very strong indications he will raise the capital gains tax by double digits and increase taxes across the board? Has he ever explained who the capital gains tax really affects to your satisfaction? Are you familiar with who that tax effects in the most common types of transactions to which it is subject? Did you know higher capital gains taxes decimate the middle class as well as "rich folks" and "big business."

Why did it take him until this weekend to withdraw from his church?


I am proud and happy to say that Obama is a liberal elitist who really thinks the average American is stupid enough to buy into his Utopian "Hope and Change" crap when all the time he is the ONE candidate who is refusing to put his neck on the line and be specific about his goals and honest about his past influences.

Hillary and McCain have both been very specific about what they will do, and very pragmatic in their approaches. They show a degree of intelligence, experience and maturity to rule this nation.

Obama does not. He is a fraud. Call me wrong all you want, but just wait until November when he get absolutely skunked in the general election.

[TexasWSP]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Did you see the recent speech where Obama said we should not worry about Iran because it is a tiny country? I am not speaking out of context- that is what he said. That is a complete and utter disregard for what terrorism is and how terrorism works. It was not some huge nation that killed 3,000 Americans on 9-11.

Have you heard the many speeches Obama has made on evil oil companies or high gas prices? They sound very appealing but lack in substance or solutions.

How often has Obama given you specific information you can understand and trust in when it comes to why and how he would accomplish something- and where the money would come from?

Did you hear Obama talk about poor people who cling to guns and religion?

Have you heard the very few times Obama has spoken about taxation and given very strong indications he will raise the capital gains tax by double digits and increase taxes across the board? Has he ever explained who the capital gains tax really affects to your satisfaction? Are you familiar with who that tax effects in the most common types of transactions to which it is subject? Did you know higher capital gains taxes decimate the middle class as well as "rich folks" and "big business."

Why did it take him until this weekend to withdraw from his church?


I am proud and happy to say that Obama is a liberal elitist who really thinks the average American is stupid enough to buy into his Utopian "Hope and Change" crap when all the time he is the ONE candidate who is refusing to put his neck on the line and be specific about his goals and honest about his past influences.

Hillary and McCain have both been very specific about what they will do, and very pragmatic in their approaches. They show a degree of intelligence, experience and maturity to rule this nation.

Obama does not. He is a fraud. Call me wrong all you want, but just wait until November when he get absolutely skunked in the general election.

his thoughts on oil and gas companies are some of the most idiotic, clueless things i've ever heard

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Right, but it seems to point back to rhetoric rather than reality. The skills it takes to write inspirational somewhat political books and what it might actually take to govern and get stuff done may not be the same skill set.

Shinerbock seems to believe Obama will actually get stuff done and I'm curious why Shinerbock believes it. Anyone else is welcome to answer but reference to Obama writing books doesn't really deliver what I'm looking for.

(I think this is coming off as snippier than I mean it to. I'm not blowing your comments off because I generally find them interesting and insightful. It just seems like you're responding to a different question than I asked.)

Well you're talking about substance over style and I'm assuming you haven't read the books? The first was written before he was elected for political office and about his life, his struggles to find his identity. It's not really political or "inspirational" other than it is his life up through his work as an organizer in Chicago. The second is actually presents his political perspective and what he'd like to see for the government and the country. It's not just high level talk about change and hope, it's also detail oriented. Don't brush off the books just because of their titles or your assumptions about them.

If all you do is watch the headline news, you don't see the substance because the media (whether CNN or FOX) doesn't really care. The political question/answer shows are better because at least there people are forced to answer, or to make and obvious dodge. But if you listen to actual speeches, read opinion articles from all perspectives, etc. you can see the substance.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Well you're talking about substance over style and I'm assuming you haven't read the books? The first was written before he was elected for political office and about his life, his struggles to find his identity. It's not really political or "inspirational" other than it is his life up through his work as an organizer in Chicago. The second is actually presents his political perspective and what he'd like to see for the government and the country. It's not just high level talk about change and hope, it's also detail oriented. Don't brush off the books just because of their titles or your assumptions about them.

If all you do is watch the headline news, you don't see the substance because the media (whether CNN or FOX) doesn't really care. The political question/answer shows are better because at least there people are forced to answer, or to make and obvious dodge. But if you listen to actual speeches, read opinion articles from all perspectives, etc. you can see the substance.

I have watched him and read him and about him in action and his great gifts seems to be rhetorical rather than substantial to me. You can see and experience the charisma, wit, and underlying intelligence certainly when you see him in action, but I don't see an accumulation of deeply held beliefs I could expect him to act on. [ETA: or maybe I should say deeply held beliefs that I think can possibly hold up in the face of the reality he will have to deal with if elected. What he says about foreign policy is an example. It's not that I doubt he believes what he's saying today, but I think reality is going to be a slap in the face and I don't know what he will actually be able to do.]

But even if I came to an understanding of what motivated his beliefs after reading the books and I felt like he had a lot of substance, I'd still have to reconcile my impression with the candidate in the race, and I'm not sure it would come off favorably.

The whole church thing from beginning to end is just [another but different] kind of a case in point.

What are we to conclude about what Obama believes about Wright or Trinity? Why isn't a reasonable conclusion that he participated and aligned himself with the church as long as he benefited politically from that relationship but jettisoned that relationship when it was no longer beneficial? How do you reconcile that with having real substance or with the content of the speech he made shortly after the Wright thing first blew up?

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Did you see the recent speech where Obama said we should not worry about Iran because it is a tiny country? I am not speaking out of context- that is what he said. That is a complete and utter disregard for what terrorism is and how terrorism works. It was not some huge nation that killed 3,000 Americans on 9-11.

Have you heard the many speeches Obama has made on evil oil companies or high gas prices? They sound very appealing but lack in substance or solutions.

How often has Obama given you specific information you can understand and trust in when it comes to why and how he would accomplish something- and where the money would come from?

Did you hear Obama talk about poor people who cling to guns and religion?

Have you heard the very few times Obama has spoken about taxation and given very strong indications he will raise the capital gains tax by double digits and increase taxes across the board? Has he ever explained who the capital gains tax really affects to your satisfaction? Are you familiar with who that tax effects in the most common types of transactions to which it is subject? Did you know higher capital gains taxes decimate the middle class as well as "rich folks" and "big business."

Why did it take him until this weekend to withdraw from his church?


I am proud and happy to say that Obama is a liberal elitist who really thinks the average American is stupid enough to buy into his Utopian "Hope and Change" crap when all the time he is the ONE candidate who is refusing to put his neck on the line and be specific about his goals and honest about his past influences.

Hillary and McCain have both been very specific about what they will do, and very pragmatic in their approaches. They show a degree of intelligence, experience and maturity to rule this nation.

Obama does not. He is a fraud. Call me wrong all you want, but just wait until November when he get absolutely skunked in the general election.

agreed on every count. at this point, i'm voting mccain... at least the guy is specific and not just throwing around the words "hope" and "change".

i live in texas anyway... the republican always wins texas

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

agreed on every count. at this point, i'm voting mccain... at least the guy is specific and not just throwing around the words "hope" and "change".

i live in texas anyway... the republican always wins texas

I had questions about Obama in that regard also until I really looked at his website. He has every issue with detailed plans right out there for anybody to read. My remaining concern is that everything he wants to do costs a lot of money and I'm not sure that his plan for paying for it all will fly with Congress. But, that's our checks and balances system. I'm not sure we can go for the sweeping changes all at once. It may take baby steps to move toward the change.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by AGDee

I had questions about Obama in that regard also until I really looked at his website. He has every issue with detailed plans right out there for anybody to read. My remaining concern is that everything he wants to do costs a lot of money and I'm not sure that his plan for paying for it all will fly with Congress. But, that's our checks and balances system. I'm not sure we can go for the sweeping changes all at once. It may take baby steps to move toward the change.

You might not need to take baby steps if you've got large majorities in both houses.

But I hope the steps are small, like you say. That way we won't have to do too much to reverse the damage come 2012.

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I think the Vote or Die tie-in is the best part of this episode.

Only because it gave rise to the greatness of the PETA compound.

PetaGuy: "Clearly you don't love animals the way WE love animals"
Stan: "Umm, yeah"

Originally Posted by AGDee

My remaining concern is that everything he wants to do costs a lot of money and I'm not sure that his plan for paying for it all will fly with Congress. But, that's our checks and balances system. I'm not sure we can go for the sweeping changes all at once. It may take baby steps to move toward the change.

Sure, with gas prices up aroudn $4.00, I would LOVE to have my taxes raised for all kinds of "silver bullet" social programs!

Kitso
KS 361 times I laugh when I watch that episode and the hybrid human-ostrich thing squeals, "Kill......me, kill......ME!" LOL

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by wreckingcrew

Sure, with gas prices up aroudn $4.00, I would LOVE to have my taxes raised for all kinds of "silver bullet" social programs!

Kitso
KS 361 times I laugh when I watch that episode and the hybrid human-ostrich thing squeals, "Kill......me, kill......ME!" LOL

As a teacher, I don't think you're in the top 1% of the income earners in this country (I know, it's a big let down, but your pay isn't that great, really). He says that he would only increase taxes for those in the top 1% and would actually make the tax breaks larger for those in our tax bracket. And, if we weren't paying for Iraq every day, we'd be saving a lot of $$ too.

But, that is my biggest concern with him too.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by AGDee

As a teacher, I don't think you're in the top 1% of the income earners in this country (I know, it's a big let down, but your pay isn't that great, really). He says that he would only increase taxes for those in the top 1% and would actually make the tax breaks larger for those in our tax bracket. And, if we weren't paying for Iraq every day, we'd be saving a lot of $$ too.

But, that is my biggest concern with him too.

How do you reconcile the top 1% of income with the 75,000 dollar income threshold that Obama has mentioned previously?

Do you really think he's going to be able to get out quick in Iraq? Quick enough that we'd be talking about substantial cost savings? Even if we could do it, I don't think it's be the right thing to do, but I really don't see it happening even if he is elected. What do you think?

ETA: I find Obama pretty likable and I think I'd like to have him as a professor, but I just don't want the government trying to do more for us since what they do already they do relatively poorly.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

You might not need to take baby steps if you've got large majorities in both houses.

But I hope the steps are small, like you say. That way we won't have to do too much to reverse the damage come 2012.

I was watching...well one of those political shows...last night and one of the guys said something that struck me. Our government was set up to cause "gridlock" so that drastic changes wouldn't unsettle the entire population.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I was watching...well one of those political shows...last night and one of the guys said something that struck me. Our government was set up to cause "gridlock" so that drastic changes wouldn't unsettle the entire population.

Not just to avoid unsettling, but to avoid rash or extreme decisions based on crisis, to avoid irreversible shifts in policy, etc.

[UGAalum94]

The website was better than I thought. I don't know if it is more expansive than before or if I just didn't look in the right places. I hadn't looked since the start of the primaries.

I don't think there's a problem for which the answer isn't "spend more money" but that's kind of what I expect from all Democrats honestly and lately a lot of Republicans as well. Of course how the government is going to get the money is never spelled out as well as how to spend it. Honestly though, Obama has been a little better about this than most people with his comments about taxes on anyone making more than 75,000 as household income. Scary but honest.

And of course with education especially, there's a lot of stuff that it's hard for me to accept that it's the federal government's job to do. He also seems unaware that some of the educational programs he favors don't deliver the clear benefits he seems to think they do. And the commentary about No Child Left Behind is laughable. But all politicians are bad about NCLB.

The page is substantial but kind of affirms how much Obama supports that I don't. I don't want to pin my hopes for change on more federal government spending, thanks.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I was watching...well one of those political shows...last night and one of the guys said something that struck me. Our government was set up to cause "gridlock" so that drastic changes wouldn't unsettle the entire population.

"The question is not how to make government work, but how to make it stop."
-P.J. O'Rourke