Kappa Beta Gamma/Kappa Delta

[BootyKBG]

Originally Posted by LPIDelta

NPC is not a "governing" organization per se--no one really decides what can and can't be done, so much as the member groups work together to establish "unanimous agreements." So it may be more accurate to reference NPC member groups rather than blame NPC in general.

I understand this, however, when expansion is opened up on a campus for one of our chapters and we are told there is nothing we can do about it, I find that extremely disrespectful. This is exactly what happened in the Loyola situation when we were contacted by NPC, and I am not sure we even were contacted with the F&M situation, but I may be wrong on that one as I am not the main contact.

[LPIDelta]

Maybe the answer is for your organization to approach NPC with your concerns? I honestly think that there is no clear understanding of what to do in these situations and if there is a continual dialogue between your organization and NPC then maybe that will alleviate some of the confusion.

I know that from an NPC perspective, I was once asked if I personally knew anyone in KBG to contact because there were issues with one of the chapters--keeping that website updated is certainly a key to building legitimacy and connections.

I do understand your perspective--but what about the women in the chapters? Shouldn't it be the goal of every sorority to ensure a positive experience for its members? I truly believe KBG tries to do everything that it can to ensure that their sisters do have a good experience but should an NPC member group turn away in the case where there is a strong group women who are seeking a different experience from what they currently have?

And what kind of programming is in place to ensure that KBG sisters are instilled with loyalty and fully understand what kind of experience they can expect as a sister and alum?

I don't know--just throwing some thoughts out there.

[nittanyalum]

I finally read through this whole thread, fascinating!

I'll agree the KD absorption was on the up-and-up, all sides attest to that, though I'm sure it still stings KBG's nationals. The KKG absorption, though, sounds like it was very poorly handled. It's interesting that no KKGs have leapt into the conversation.

But to BootyKGB, while, again, I can imagine losing these chapters is painful, you yourself pointed out that your "national office" at one point was one lone alum and it's been pointed out by others that chapters weren't provided with materials, structure, support, etc. So to then toss out the comment that the F&M women made their decision ultimately just because "they wanted to be able to buy stuff with their letters on it" (especially in this day and age when you can get customized stuff made with great ease), is unfair, simplistic and relieves KBG national org of any responsibility, which it does hold for the support and betterment of its chapters.

[BootyKBG]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

I finally read through this whole thread, fascinating!

I'll agree the KD absorption was on the up-and-up, all sides attest to that, though I'm sure it still stings KBG's nationals. The KKG absorption, though, sounds like it was very poorly handled. It's interesting that no KKGs have leapt into the conversation.

But to BootyKGB, while, again, I can imagine losing these chapters is painful, you yourself pointed out that your "national office" at one point was one lone alum and it's been pointed out by others that chapters weren't provided with materials, structure, support, etc. So to then toss out the comment that the F&M women made their decision ultimately just because "they wanted to be able to buy stuff with their letters on it" (especially in this day and age when you can get customized stuff made with great ease), is unfair, simplistic and relieves KBG national org of any responsibility, which it does hold for the support and betterment of its chapters.

I only said that as that was honestly one of the reasons they wanted to disaffiliate...no lie. I do completely understand their other reasons for choosing to change affiliation and we WERE working with the chapter to do so. The problem here lies in that they were able to affiliate with another sorority before actually finishing the disaffiliation process with their (at that time) current sorority. This is absolutely taboo between NPC affiliated sororities, so why is it ok to absorb a non-NPC sorority without acknowledging the same processes? We are a National Social Sorority that simply acts on a much smaller scale. We acknowledge that we are not financially able to provide all of the same things that the enormous organizations are able to, however we have frequent direct contact with our chapters and support them directly in ways that many larger organizations are not able to. We do have annual conventions, education processes, organized monthly meetings, national and alumnae advisors, etc. So I'm not denying that the chapter had legit reasons, I'm arguing that the processes should be the same no matter who the governing board pledges allegiances to.

[BootyKBG]

Originally Posted by LPIDelta

Maybe the answer is for your organization to approach NPC with your concerns? I honestly think that there is no clear understanding of what to do in these situations and if there is a continual dialogue between your organization and NPC then maybe that will alleviate some of the confusion.

I know that from an NPC perspective, I was once asked if I personally knew anyone in KBG to contact because there were issues with one of the chapters--keeping that website updated is certainly a key to building legitimacy and connections.

I do understand your perspective--but what about the women in the chapters? Shouldn't it be the goal of every sorority to ensure a positive experience for its members? I truly believe KBG tries to do everything that it can to ensure that their sisters do have a good experience but should an NPC member group turn away in the case where there is a strong group women who are seeking a different experience from what they currently have?

And what kind of programming is in place to ensure that KBG sisters are instilled with loyalty and fully understand what kind of experience they can expect as a sister and alum?

I don't know--just throwing some thoughts out there.

You are correct, the lines of communication NEED to be opened. It was during such a conference call during the Loyola situation that we were basically told that because we were not NPC we couldn't really do anything about it. Later attempts at communication during that situation failed. If NPC is willing to re-open that communication, that would be wonderful.

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

IThe KKG absorption, though, sounds like it was very poorly handled. It's interesting that no KKGs have leapt into the conversation.

Most likely it's because none of us have first-hand knowledge of the situation surrounding the installation of the Eta Lambda chapter at Loyola. Even if someone did, I highly doubt they would share that information out of discretion.

[Katydid617]

Originally Posted by BootyKBG

Nu initially began asking for items that we simply couldn't or wouldn't supply, such as buying them a house. We had 5 chapters with extremely low dues compared to many NPC sororities, and because of this that is something that constitutionally we just don't provide. After much discussion the chapter decided that buying "stuff they could find their letters on" was more important that honoring their history and the support that KBG had provided up til that time, including the efforts of re-recognition by campus.

I agree with nittanyalum as buying "stuff they could find their letters on" is as far from the truth as humanly possible and it is unfair to say that. That had absolutely no bearing on the decision. It is quite easy to get these things now a days as evidenced by the plethora of websites offering these services. The F & M chapter also never asked KBG for a house as per F & M policy the college provides houses to all greek organizations. The chapter absolutely asked for assistance on a variety of matters, but a house was never asked for. Also as a side not, the National Dues paid to KBG are more expensive then then National dues the women of F & M pay to KD.

The women of F & M have always appreciated the efforts of KBG during our re-recognition time and we will continue to appreciate it. As previously mentioned we grew apart and in the end I think the best decision for both groups was made. It has been a goal for the women of F & M to include KBG in our New Member Education program as it is part of our history and will always remain so. A strong appeal of KD was their willingness to allow the women of F & M to continue to educate its new members on our KBG history.

As has been previously mentioned, the F & M situation happened above the table as NPC was in contact with KBG Nationals (I was present for the conversations) and I do not understand what else there is to be discussing specific to this situation. I am sorry, but I am not comfortable with my chapter and my sisters being unfairly insulted on the internet.

[nittanyalum]

Sorry, but I had to LOL at the competing Est. dates in the signatures now...

[BootyKBG]

Originally Posted by Katydid617

I agree with nittanyalum as buying "stuff they could find their letters on" is as far from the truth as humanly possible and it is unfair to say that. That had absolutely no bearing on the decision. It is quite easy to get these things now a days as evidenced by the plethora of websites offering these services. The F & M chapter also never asked KBG for a house as per F & M policy the college provides houses to all greek organizations. The chapter absolutely asked for assistance on a variety of matters, but a house was never asked for. Also as a side not, the National Dues paid to KBG are more expensive then then National dues the women of F & M pay to KD.

I would send you a PM, but it doesn't look like you have that option.

I served as the national advisor for the chapter, and in fact I'm pretty sure I remember meeting you during my chapter visit last October I believe it is. The truth of the matter is that yes, both of these items were repeatedly brought up to us. No, they were not the only concern, and no, I'm not trying to bash your women.

As far as disaffiliation, there are several steps that were never met and Jenna has not responded to contacts made by our secretary. As I said before, yes, I understand and respect the reasons for the break, but my problem is with the disrespect toward Kappa Beta Gamma in the refusal to follow our own protocol as well as the disrespect from NPC as mentioned before. Its these issues that I'm trying to address.

[ForeverRoses]

Slightly off the current topic, but in respect to the women that were initiated into KBG and have now been initiated into KD or KKG, were their memberships is KBG revoked? I know the chapters (should) have asked to disaffiliate, but what about the individual members? I assume they are no longer considered members in good standing? And what about the alumnae?

[FSUZeta]

wouldn't the alumnae still be considered alumnae, much like our own members who were initiated into a chapter that has closed(for whatever reason)?

[nate2512]

Originally Posted by Katydid617

Also as a side not, the National Dues paid to KBG are more expensive then then National dues the women of F & M pay to KD.

Hmm...the guy in the fraternity got something right. Go Figure.

[texas*princess]

I haven't read this thread in awhile, but I've got to say it def. is a lot more interesting now than it was when I was looking up KBG on their website.

For those who were telling me "NPCs absorb locals all the time" Yes, you're right, they do. But those are LOCAL sororities. Meaning they are the one and only chapter of that sorority.

Not CHAPTERS of an already established sorority no matter how many or how little chapters that sorority has.

I think the fact that it sounds like they didn't even bother to deal with the disaffiliation process is also interesting.

[vedette713]

Originally Posted by BootyKBG

The Nu chapter of KBG at Franklin and Marshall decided as active members that they wanted to affiliate with a panhellenic sorority. They had been in discussion about this with nationals on and off for maybe a year before they formally requested disaffiliation. Several years back our nationals was weak and supported by ONE active alumna who didn't ask for help until other former executive members stepped in. Since then we have continued to grow and strengthen as a national organization.

Because of this weak time period, said national alumna who was serving as sole board member with poor judgement suggested the possibility of a merger to the chapters during the annual convention. Our strongest chapters at that time took this back with them, dispite the fact that during that same convention an entirely new national board came on and began the revising process.

Nu initially began asking for items that we simply couldn't or wouldn't supply, such as buying them a house. We had 5 chapters with extremely low dues compared to many NPC sororities, and because of this that is something that constitutionally we just don't provide. After much discussion the chapter decided that buying "stuff they could find their letters on" was more important that honoring their history and the support that KBG had provided up til that time, including the efforts of re-recognition by campus.

BootyKBG, I do have a PM and I would love to talk about how this confusion with the us “asking for items [you] simply couldn’t or wouldn’t supply, such as buying a house” started because, with all due respect, that was never a reason for our disaffiliation. Here’s why:

(1) In Fall 2005, after the Tri-Sigma chapter on our campus closed, their landlord offered to rent us their (very, very nice) house. So we could have had a house, had we wanted it. We said no, because there simply wasn’t enough interest among sisters for it. I should point out that not all the Greek organizations on our campus have houses, and since we always had several sisters willing to lend apartments or houses for sorority activities, we never needed one.

(2) When we began disaffiliation talks with KBG national, we already knew the school was working to create a “Greek Row” where all the Greek organizations would be moving into houses owned by the college. Granted we didn’t know exactly when this would occur, but we knew it was in the near future. So we would have had no reason to ask you to buy us a house.

(3) By Fall 2007, when we were still in disaffiliation talks with KBG Nationals (which began Spring 2006, if anyone’s interested), we knew that we would have a house, through the school, in Fall 2008. So, again, there was no reason to ask you to buy us one.

(4) And finally … we just aren’t that shallow. And given what has been said about us on this thread, I will be explaining that. I’d just like to start by saying none of this is meant to insult BootyKBG or her board. I understand she’s very devoted to her organization and is working very hard for it. But, as she’s admitted, the previous administration … not so much.

Basically, each member of a KBG chapter is supposed to pay $80 a semester in membership dues. In return, the national organization says the chapter will receive annual visits from a member of national, leadership workshops, an updated website, a magazine, and the chapter’s president and national liaison go to an annual convention.

So we paid our dues. And the website hasn’t been updated since 2004 (I know they’re working on it, but the fact remains it’s been over four years), we’ve never seen a KBG magazine, the first visit a national representative ever made to this campus was this fall when we were trying to disaffiliate (not even to initiate our chapter — our founders went to them), and while convention did happen, unless “leadership workshops” refers specifically to what goes on at convention, we’ve never had them.

Additionally, we had complaints regarding the speed with which we received materials. For example, our bylaws are from 1998 (our chapter was founded in 2002) and, just speaking personally, I wrote a $140 check for a pin when I joined in Spring 2005. In Fall 2006, completely fed up, I asked that the check just be cancelled and put toward my dues because I seriously didn’t think I’d ever see the thing.

So we didn’t disaffiliate because we were asking KBG for extraneous things they couldn’t possibly provide us. We asked to disaffiliate because they weren’t providing us with what they said they would provide us with — but they were still taking our money. And whenever we asked, we were told “it’s coming, don’t worry, it’ll be fixed/up/here soon.” But it never was.

And once again, that’s not meant to insult BootyKBG or the current KBG nationals. And we certainly wish them the best of luck with their future colonizations and all future endeavors.

[vedette713]

Originally Posted by BootyKBG

The chapter initially began the disaffiliation process as defined by the national bylaws and was open about the situation, compared to the chapter at Loyola who approached NPC without any discussion with nationals. Unfortunately, the affiliation with an NPC on both account began while the chapter was still under KBG. To this point, neither chapter completely disaffiliated as required, and NPC allowed their organizations to move in on the chapter with little to no formal contact with KBG Nationals.

NPC has in neither case given KBG the respect it gives its own sorority members in disaffiliation and affiliation with another organization.

In the #82 post on this thread, (sorry, I’m new, I haven’t worked out double quoting), BootyKBG says she was not the main contact with regard to NPC and our expansion efforts. I can only recommend then that she speak with whomever it was from because our chapter DID DISAFFILIATE.

Our president, the director of Greek Life at our College, and NPC all received an e-mail from KBG national releasing us. We would not have moved forward with the extension process otherwise, and we certainly would not have lied to NPC or KD about our status. Furthermore, NPC worked through our office of Greek Life, so the director would have told them if things were not on the up and up.

As Katydid617 — who was the president of our campus Panhel at the time — said, we kept everything on the up and up with our school, NPC, and KBG nationals.